Absence of Evidence..............

"Example 1
In the absence of any physical evidence for or against the existence of the soul we should grant these two opposing points of view equal merit with regard to ethical questions in medical research. Both viewpoints are based on personal prejudice and philosophical assumptions rather than actual physical evidence. Both are equally valid.
Right?"Sounds relativistic. But sure I'll agree with you for now."Example 2
In the absence of any physical evidence in favour of miracles we should treat historical analyses of Jesus that assume the miraculous as equally valid to those that do not assume the miraculous to have occurred. Both viewpoints are based on personal prejudice and philosophical assumptions rather than actual physical evidence. Both are equally valid.
Right?"Not sure what you're on about here. I suppose you can either believe in unwitnessed miracles or not believe in them."Example 3
In the absence of any physical evidence for the existence of God we should obviously treat the probability of the existence of God as 50/50. Any other conclusion in either direction is the result of personal prejudice, philosophical bias or faith based belief.
Right?"Wrong. Someone may have had a personal experience where they have witnessed something which to them seems as real as this very text you're reading. You can call it "personal prejudice" but sometimes seeing is believing (or experiencing)."Example 4
In the absence of any physical evidence for the Hindu God Vishnu we should obviously treat the existence of Vishnu as 50/50. Any other conclusion in either direction is the result of personal prejudice, philosophical bias or faith based belief.
Right?"Again, to those who have experienced it, it would be unfair to call it personal prejudice or philosophical bais."Example 5
In the absence of any physical evidence against the claim that ”sub quantised transdimensional energy fluxes can boost ones aura and enhance ones metaphysical being’ we should regularly take a ”quanta flux booster pill’ (copyright Straggler 2008 - available soon in all good pharmacies, watch this space) in order to ensure a healthy and well balanced aura. In the absence of any physical evidence for or against this claim denial of it’s validity is the result of ant-spritual prejudice and 'empirical-only' philosophical bias.
Right?"Depends... absence of physical evidence? So if my friend takes an extasy pill and sees elves and I don't take one does that mean I have no physical evidence that those pills helped him see elves?"Discussion
A recurring theme here at EvC is the concept that ”Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence’. Those of a theistic bent tend to selectively use this argument in application to their own unfounded beliefs whilst dismissing any equivalent claims to things that they find as equally ridiculous as I find their claims of the supernatural."A recurring theme at EvC is also that the 'absence of evidence implies absence'. Both of which I would disagree with."Should not the default position, i.e. the position in the absence of any evidence always be disbelief rather than belief?"Yes, unless there are witnesses to the contrary. I.e. if someone says they are 100% convinced they saw a UFO then some research might need to go into figuring out what it was that he saw, rather than just dismissing the account as delusional. The more people tell the same account, the greater the need to find a solution. This is science is it not? - finding an explanation for an observed phenomenom."In practice is not the default position for everyone disbelief rather than belief almost all of the time? Exceptions are then made, by some, with regard to the extraordinary claims of religion and other aspects of the supernatural which are deemed ”untestable’."So if, during a court case, some eye witnesses say they saw Mr. Smith stab Mrs. Smith repeatedly with a knife, the jury's position here should be disbelief rather than belief all of the time? I think not!"Is not empirical evidence the only basis on which reliable conclusions can be made? The only form of evidence that can ultimately establish the truth or otherwise of any given claim? The only form of evidence that actually warrants the term “evidence”?"Empirical evidence is just a peice of the puzzle. Sometimes it's an important piece, other time's it's not even required. In science, empirical evidence is one of the foundations for any rule."Questions
If you are religious at all, is there any area apart from your religious beliefs where you would be willing to believe in something without empirical evidence of some kind?"Yes, we all do this every day constantly. It's called taking someone's word for it. In fact, most of us have been taught in school many things without us having any evidence for them. We just believed them. Same applies to the TV. Weapons of mass destruction in Iraq anyone?"Why should we believe in, or make concessions to, anything for which there is no physical evidence?"Good question. Perhaps the answer lies in the fact that the great majority of the time we don't have any evidence ourselves and we must act based upon what we think to be true based on what others have told us.

---

Estepona Apartments - Apartments for sale and rent in Estepona, Spain

"So if I told you I had just witnessed a miracle you would belive me? Case closed? Miracles happen."This depends on the reliability of your person. There is an element of Trust. Again, I don't know how you would define miracle but I'll give you a real life example.I used to work in an office with about 20 people. One of them was about 50 and from my conversations with him he was a serious, honest and reliable person. He was married with kids and had been a police officer in Norway where he is from).One day during a conversation he told of his and his wife's experience on their boat. He said he didn't believe in UFO's or anything strange but told the story as reliably as possible of what him and his wife experienced.Here's how the story went:They were sleep while the boat was piloting itself in the sea overnight. They were awoken by the sonar (low depth warning) and immediately went to the control room. Sure enough the sensors had detected that their boat was in shallow water. They double checked their GPS position and saw they were actually in the middle of the sea, no where near land.A few seconds later, the boat was without electricty and they couldn't even hear the diesel engines (the diesel engines had stopped). I.e. all mechanical and electrical things on the boat stopped working.They went onto the deck of the motionless boat and heard a noise as though something soared out of the water. Then a light shone onto the boat for what to him and his wife seemed like several seconds.The light turned off, and they heard a noise similar to some craft taking off. Immediately all power returned to the boat and engines continued.Sonar or whatever depth meter showed once again normal depth for their location and they resumed their journey.Now, there is no doubt in my mind, that the person telling the story was 100% sincere. I, nor him, have no plausible explanation for what he claims happened. I am, however, certain of one thing, to him and his wife what happened was real.You would just dismiss this as imposible. A big mistake in my opinion, and definitely not the way to go about life and its mysteries.Case closed? No. Your mind, my friend, is what's closed."Don't be an idiot. An eye witness account is empirical evidence if it corroborates other phyical objective evidence.
An eye witness acoount with no other physical evidence (no body, no weapon, no suggestion of murder at all in fact) should rightly be taken with a large pinch of salt."Insults aren't the right way to go about things. By the way, there are many cases which are decided without any physical objective evidence. Expand your views."You are not the first person to say this but none have yet given a convincing arguemnt for the inclusion of any other forms of evidence.
What form s of evidence are you advocating and on what grounds?Please give an example of such "evidence" and the conclusion that was derived from this evidence."FIRST HAND WITNESS ACCOUNTS. Sigh. Many pilots have seen things in the sky. Whether they are optical ilusions or something else is what we don't know. Saying all those pilots are delusional IS THE WRONG WAY TO GO ABOUT IT! This is the point I'm trying to make."Bollocks. We assess the validity of claims for which we do not have direct physical evidence on a lifetime of empirical experience of what is and what is not empirically likely."So you're the authority on what is empirically likely and what is not?I agree that there are things that are common and things that are not. That doesn't make it right to think that uncommon events or things don't exist."If I tell you I saw a cat this morning you would probably believe me. This is mundane and everyday. You have personal empirical experience of cats and know that they are common."If you told me you saw a cat with two heads I would probably doubt you. But I'd be a fool to state that a cat with two heads cannot possibly exist."Again - We believe others when they make claims that our own empirical experience tells us are reasonable. "Closed-minded: lacking tolerance or flexibility or breadth of view.

---

Estepona Apartments - Apartments for sale and rent in Estepona, Spain

Alas my friend it is you who is entirely missing the point.Keep in mind it is you that was asking (or stating): "In the absence of empirical evidence what conclusions can we justifiably draw?"The point I'm making is simple. I'll break it into easy points anyone can follow.- Lack of empirical evidence doesn't prove that something doesn't exist (neither does it prove that it does exist).
- When we lack empirical evidence for a rare or dificult-to-physically-detect observation we must propose possible explanations.
-Dismissing things as impossible based on our current knowledge of the universe is the easy thing to do.P.S. I've noticed you've made some sneaky edits to your original post

---

Estepona Apartments - Apartments for sale and rent in Estepona, Spain

Came accross this searching for experiments in the field.These looked interestingRetroPsychoKinesis Experiments OnlineI found them at this site The Parapsychological Association Looks like lots of interesting reading will comment when I get a chance to plow through bit busy right now though.

---

Estepona Apartments - Apartments for sale and rent in Estepona, Spain