Creation DOES need to be taught with evolution

David,I have skipped a lot here, so forgive me if it is covered before. At first I wondered what your real motives were. We shall see. The typical answer I have seen to the question of DNA and genetics is that it is evidence of design using similar systems in different applications, a rather weak argument and ultimately untestable.I have always felt that both creationism (and ID) would fare poorly in school science classes where they are kept to the task of presenting scientific data\information -- and that the amount of time needed to cover their hypothesis would be fairly brief.To me there would be two aspects to focus on: (1) What predictions can be made from creationism (or ID) that would need to be true to differentiate it from evolution and how do you test {it\them} to see if they prove out?(as you mention above)and (2) Where you cannot differentiate the mechanisms of creation (or ID) from the mechanisms of evolution, what does adding a supernatural aspect to the process do to further our understanding of the process?(the occam's razor part of science)If you cannot scientifically differentiate the living process of creation from the living process of evolution, and if adding an arbitrary supernatural element does not improve our understanding of the process of life, then there can be no controversy or conflict between the "how" science of understanding the process of life and the "why" faith in an external purpose.One of the problems however, is that not every school would have a truly scientific forum to hold those classes: it is not a level field of education, and there are many people who, in ignorance, stupidity, maliciousness or insanity will take advantage of the situation to make a dishonest presentation. Call me jaundiced, but I have seen the ability (?) of many teachers fail to be adequate to this question (and others ... ).I think the country would be better served by putting a major emphasis on the teaching of logic, and how logical arguments are constructed and what the common logical fallacies are that everyone runs into (homework assignments on TV ads would be fun).For without this basis your program is doomed to be bogged down by failure to understand the logic of the arguments.I also think that part of the problem is that all public schools are funded locally, and this leads to necessary different ability to teach due to different ability to fund the teaching. Perhaps if High Schools were funded and run on a state rather than a local level and they set standards for the students to meet to be admitted there would be a place for this type of program...For what it is worth, those are my thoughts on the subject.Enjoy.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

oh I agree on that. the problem is that the foundation to understanding is missing -- that is where I go to teaching logic first.if people do not understand when an argument fails the test of logic there is not much one can do ...perhaps it is an age\indoctrination thing.one benefit of the school program though is that they would not have new kids showing up through the year, so you could move on.I do have trouble with mixing it in to a pure biology class, as this would discriminate against all students that don't believe in creation or don't necessarily have a problem between their beliefs and the science of evolution (most christians?).perhaps an optional course?

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

yes, but they should also be at a similar level of understanding or they would need to start the class anew.

my biggest concern is that this would seem to be pandering to one religion.if you open it up to muslim creationism and jewish creationism (which are similar to christian) and to hindu creationism (which is not ... they don't think the scientific age of the universe is old enough ...) and all other faith creationisms even if they don't have a political arm (native american, japanese, heck, even norse) you get a wonderful class on faith in science, but you lose a lot of space for the biological science.and when you lose time for the science then you lose the opportunity to do the actual learning involved.therefore it would have to be a generic creationism to work at all .. a GC (or General Creationism). and it would have to be a "what if religion were true" approach ... a boldly stated agnostic position.and as long as no specific religion was refered to (or no aspect specific to a small group of religions even) in the process then I don't think there would be any constitutional issue.but one of the biggest problems I have with education is the archaic pattern that has developed of local financing, and this results in many cases in teachers of classes not being educated that well in the subjects they are teaching: history majors teaching science may be good for learning about the history of science, but if the teacher doesn't know the science it is hard to envisage how they could teach it to the kids.I think there needs to be a change, and that high schools if not middle schools should be run by the state so that they can ensure a state-wide level of competence. Let the localities run the kindergarten and elementary schools and have standards that must be met to go to high school set by the state.I have also thought that the last two years of high school could be removed from that program and combined into a community college with an associates degree at the end that also serves to eliminate freshman year at the universities (like AP classes can now): let those who want to go to these institutions do so at state cost (free to the student), but don't require it of those who don't want an advanced education (get the deadwood out of the system so the others can learn) and let the colleges focus on different areas of interest.Combine the remaining years of high school with middle school in a state run program, and you can also have focus schools for different interests (music & arts, engineering & sciences, general humanities, etc)Michigan is moving towards state control of high schools, but unless it is done whole hog it won't work.Well, there is another 'lyin leftist liberal' rant ... hehenjoy.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

next question then is to compare the results of English education to American ... and seeing if there might be something to learn from the effort.thanks.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}