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Author Topic:   Miller and Urey Experiment: What has changed?
ringo
Member
Posts: 18943
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.9


(4)
Message 33 of 85 (674396)
09-28-2012 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by LimpSpider
09-27-2012 7:54 PM


LimpSPider writes:

Viruses are non-living because they are unable to metabolise on their own.


I'd consider that an argument in favour of abiogenesis. If viruses have some of the characteristics of life but not all, then the distinction between living and non-living matter is blurred.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by LimpSpider, posted 09-27-2012 7:54 PM LimpSpider has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by LimpSpider, posted 09-29-2012 7:13 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18943
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 40 of 85 (674490)
09-29-2012 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by LimpSpider
09-29-2012 7:13 AM


LimpSpider writes:

Actually, I’ve never seen a virus evolve the ability to metabolize.


Viruses are pretty successful as they are. What environmental "pressure" would there be for them to evolve a fundamentally different lifestye?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by LimpSpider, posted 09-29-2012 7:13 AM LimpSpider has responded

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 Message 44 by LimpSpider, posted 09-29-2012 6:46 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18943
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 54 of 85 (674680)
10-01-2012 2:50 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by LimpSpider
09-29-2012 6:46 PM


LimpSpider writes:

Which means that they would not evolve the ability to metabolize, right? So they can’t be intermediate. They are simply too successful.


I'm not sure what "intermediate" has to do with it. My point was that there is no fundamental difference between non-living and living matter; in fact, you have to bring in artificial criteria like metabloism to make a classification. It's possible that a virus-like "thing" could evolve a metabolism-like capability if there was some advantage to it.

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 Message 44 by LimpSpider, posted 09-29-2012 6:46 PM LimpSpider has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by LimpSpider, posted 10-01-2012 7:02 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18943
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 58 of 85 (674741)
10-02-2012 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by LimpSpider
10-01-2012 7:02 PM


LimpSpider writes:

I’m not the only one who thinks viruses are non-living, ringo


You don't have to work so hard at missing the point. Cearly, there is controversy over whether or not viruses are "alive". That makes my point. There just is no clearly-defined difference between "alive" and "not alive".

The broader point, again, is that some virus-like "thing" could have evolved a metabloism-like capability if there was some advantage to it. That possibiliy is all that is needed for abiogenesis to happen.


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Replies to this message:
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