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Author Topic:   Should Evolution and Creation be Taught in School?
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 38 of 308 (288859)
02-20-2006 7:28 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Murphy
02-20-2006 7:20 PM


speciation
There is a wonderful amount of resources for speciation out there.
Try this one.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Murphy, posted 02-20-2006 7:20 PM Murphy has replied

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 Message 42 by Murphy, posted 02-20-2006 7:54 PM Modulous has replied

Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 44 of 308 (288888)
02-20-2006 8:07 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Murphy
02-20-2006 7:54 PM


Re: speciation
A species is commonly defined as a population of organisms that only breed with themselves. If one group of functional organisms cannot succesfully reproduce with another, they are different species.
If an earthworm were to become a winged or legged creature, with all the intermediate creatures exhibiting the changes in development, then I think scientists could state positively that evolution is no longer a theory.
They wouldn't. They would still have a theory that describes how it has happened. What would happen is that creationists would move the goalposts and say that that still isn't macroevolution.

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 Message 42 by Murphy, posted 02-20-2006 7:54 PM Murphy has replied

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 Message 47 by Murphy, posted 02-20-2006 10:29 PM Modulous has replied

Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 54 of 308 (289030)
02-21-2006 8:08 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by Murphy
02-20-2006 10:29 PM


Re: speciation
It appears the 'goal posts' are being moved here. If evolution is the answer, and the sole answer, then shouldn't there be proof that such has happened and is happening?
No goal posts have been moved. You asked for evidence of speciation being obserevd, I gave it to you. It seems you didn't know how species were defined, not a problem, its a relatively common area of ignorance. I was ignorant of it until I came here
There isn't proof, but there is overwhelming evidence that it has happened. I discuss this evidence in this thread, feel free to go there and ask further questions about the evidence.

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 Message 47 by Murphy, posted 02-20-2006 10:29 PM Murphy has not replied

Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 58 of 308 (289121)
02-21-2006 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by Murphy
02-21-2006 10:54 AM


fins to legs
I know that those changes would take a long time in nature, but shouldn't that line be observable through fossils?
It can be inferred, but not observed. We can see lobe finned fishes, and fishes with lungs etc. The best evidence lies in the DNA though, which provides absolutely enormous amounts of evidence for these large scale changes.
You mention ears. Here is an interesting picture about ears, and I have a message that explains the diagram. Its not concrete evidence as you'd be right to say, but it is yet another piece of evidence to go into the growing pile of evidences.
As I said though, the DNA evidence is the most compelling.

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Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 76 of 308 (294529)
03-12-2006 1:50 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by R. Cuaresma
03-12-2006 7:47 AM


Re: Creation and Evolution in Unification
In the teaching of evolution we must not forget to integrate the "creation's point of view." For example, evolution says that we descended from the primates, but have we ever seen a present day primate turns into human being?
I don't see why we mustn't forget to integrate the creation's point of view. We don't integrate the flat earth point of view do we? We have never seen a primate that turns into a human being, I don't think that makes any sense to consider. We have seen primates that give birth to humans. My own parents were primates in fact.
God might have copied the same, did a little modifications on it and created the Australopithecus. Then, copied the same design, modified it, created another, and so on.
The joys of positing an all powerful being is that he coulda done anything. Yes, he could have done that, or he could have created them all at the same time, or created a small group of 'Kinds' which micro evolved. Or perhaps he didn't really create any of them, and we are all angels dreaming of flesh in paradise. Perhaps Bialyabog created spirit and Czernobog created flesh, and the laughing god with the brass moustache steals children if they enter the forest without wearing their clothes backwards before tickling them to death.
In my own understanding, creation and evolution must be taught in a unified approach because they are the same schools of thought viewed like the two sides of a "single coin."
Should we also teach that space and time are absolute? Should we teach that the earth is the centre of the solar system? That rain comes through holes in the heavens? These things are all two sides of the same coin.
My opinion is that creationism should be brought up, to put evolution into historical context. I was taught about creationism and ID as a youngster as ideas that came before evolution. I have no problem with that being brought up, I think it is useful to teach the history of an idea, and what ideas came before it.

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