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Author Topic:   Creationist/ID Education should be allowed
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 50 of 116 (673190)
09-15-2012 10:12 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by Genologist
09-15-2012 5:41 PM


Re: re-tracing "the steps" in evolution
Would it not be more ethical albeit a compromise, to include a separate subject (or as a subject within a subject) of beliefs, hypotheses and even theories that could be studied to embrace ideas from all quarters.

No, that would not be ethical. Evolution is the only theory of the origin of species that is supported by all scientific evidence. It would be a lie to pretend otherwise in a science class. I cannot agree with this rationale for teaching creationism in science class.

I for one would object to my child being taught theories that exclude a God and have no plausible beginnings

It would be unconstitutional in the US to revise a science curriculum for this reason. Perhaps a compromise would be for you to teach your child religion at home or in Sunday school.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

“Choose silence of all virtues, for by it you hear other men's imperfections, and conceal your own.” George Bernard Shaw


This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Genologist, posted 09-15-2012 5:41 PM Genologist has taken no action

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 54 of 116 (673202)
09-16-2012 10:29 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by Dr Adequate
09-16-2012 8:22 AM


Re: re-tracing "the steps" in evolution
If we can't teach anything until we have an origins story for it that creationists can agree with, then we cannot, in fact, teach pretty much anything, and civilization would collapse within a generation.

Well it would appear that we could still teach mathematics and logic.

But yeah, I'd come up with a pretty similar list of things Genologist logically should protest against being taught. I'll note that most creationist don't have any problem using the technology for which that infernal science creates the basis.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

“Choose silence of all virtues, for by it you hear other men's imperfections, and conceal your own.” George Bernard Shaw


This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-16-2012 8:22 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-16-2012 10:45 AM NoNukes has seen this message

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 57 of 116 (690054)
02-08-2013 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by saab93f
02-08-2013 8:17 AM


Re: Does stupidity really know no bounds?
Electricity is a mystery. No one has ever observed it or heard it or felt it ... We cannot even say where electricity comes from."

There is a place and a plan for people who would write such a textbook for children. I cannot say exactly where and what, but the location is somewhere in Ring 4 (perhaps ditch 8??).

Just sad. What the @#$% happens if the child ever finds out that we know exactly what electricity is?

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by saab93f, posted 02-08-2013 8:17 AM saab93f has taken no action

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by kofh2u, posted 02-17-2013 7:48 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 66 of 116 (690999)
02-18-2013 8:19 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by kofh2u
02-17-2013 7:48 AM


Re: Does stupidity really know no bounds?
All we KNOW is that if a charged particle is moved, two fields apparently appear, one magnetic and the other electrical as we have come to detect and call them.

Those things are not 'electricity'. The field is an electric field, yes, but the field is not 'electricity'. An electric field is present whenever a charge, moving or stationary is present, but that field is not electricity either.

Electricity is a name we give to a set of phenomena associated with electric charges. And we know those phenomena in every detail imaginable.

Further, we know exactly what an electric field is as well.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by kofh2u, posted 02-17-2013 7:48 AM kofh2u has taken no action

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 67 of 116 (691002)
02-18-2013 8:34 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by kofh2u
02-17-2013 7:41 AM


Re: Does stupidity really know no bounds?
Focusing on just the one form of the seven different forms of Energy is less than desirable, but the writer's point is valid.

The writer was incorrect. He did not say that we did not know what energy was. Some how you decided to change the subject from electricity to energy.

But what are the seven forms of Energy? That ought to be good for a laugh.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by kofh2u, posted 02-17-2013 7:41 AM kofh2u has taken no action

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 77 of 116 (693237)
03-12-2013 8:42 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by New Cat's Eye
03-12-2013 10:40 AM


Re: Oklahoma...
I can't see how this isn't about religion.

I went to a private high school in Georgia. We were required to take courses in Old Testament history and New Testament history to graduate. I don't remember anyone belly-aching about the classes, including the Jewish students. The 9th grade biology course was conventional in every respect including teaching the theory of evolution and discussion of abiogenesis. Neither being in the deep South nor being religious requires this crap.

This is about a particular bunch of religious folk.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-12-2013 10:40 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-13-2013 1:42 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 82 of 116 (693247)
03-12-2013 11:07 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by anglagard
03-12-2013 10:45 PM


Re: "Critical thinking" and other propaganda
Then obviously the term "critical thinking" is not the proper term for "teach the controversy." Otherwise, the anti-gay, anti-education, climate change denial platform of the Texas Republican Party would not denounce critical thinking.

Did they denounce 'critical thinking' in the general sense?

The platform of the Texas Republican Party is beyond stupid. But the Texas GOP actually qualifies the term to refer to the teaching they oppose. It is the rest of the world that understands the GOP to effective oppose 'critical thinking' in the general sense. The GOP wants to undermine any teaching that might cause a critical thinking student to question his religious beliefs. Criticizing science if fair game.

quote:
Knowledge-Based Education – We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by anglagard, posted 03-12-2013 10:45 PM anglagard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by anglagard, posted 03-12-2013 11:36 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 86 of 116 (693255)
03-13-2013 12:30 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by anglagard
03-12-2013 11:36 PM


Re: "Critical thinking" and other propaganda
"We oppose the teaching of . . . , critical thinking skills. . ."

Seems pretty clear to me.

Naughty fellow. You have ellipsis dotted away some very relevant qualifiers. I'll restore the qualifiers and add italics and bold font for emphasis.

quote:
We oppose the teaching of ... critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority

In other words, these wing nuts have some particular critical thinking programs in mind. Namely, programs that challenge religious and progressive beliefs.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by anglagard, posted 03-12-2013 11:36 PM anglagard has taken no action

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 89 of 116 (693271)
03-13-2013 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by New Cat's Eye
03-13-2013 1:42 PM


Re: Oklahoma...
What I meant was that you wouldn't pass this law without being influenced by religion, not that being influenced by religion would make you pass this law.

Understood. I wasn't questioning your point. I was just dumping out some more ridicule for the anti-science group, by pointing out that what they do isn't about Jesus.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-13-2013 1:42 PM New Cat's Eye has seen this message

  
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