EvC Forum: $50 to anyone who can prove to me Evolution is a lie.

Jesus's prophecies might as well have said, "And lo, a great ball of fire shall riseth up into the heavens in the morning, and return in the evening to the darkness from whence it came. Every day it shall be born anew, until the end times."

Predicting wars and rumors of war? Predicting famines? Predicting people pretending to be God when they're not? Every last religion and cult on the planet has made these claims, and they're always correct. If they can name a specific date and location, then it's a prophecy. If not, then it's worthless, and utterly unremarkable.

Moving on:

Josephus: It is pretty much a standard acceptance of scholars that Testimonium Flavianum has been heavily embellished by 11th century Greek copyists; half the lines don't even resemble Josephus's style of writing. For example, in The Jewish War (written well after Jesus's death), he doesn't mention either Jesus, James, or John the Baptist; in Antiquities (90 C.E) (which includes testimonium), he mentions all three, but not in the ridiculous oggling terms seen in Antiquities. In short, he quite obviously heard of Jesus well-after the fact from the early Greek Christians, and wrote about it. Furthermore, there do exist earlier copies of Josephus's works (such as the 10th century Arabic version) which do not include the forged lines. The 10th century version (translated) reads:

"At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus, and his conduct was good, and he was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not abandon their loyalty to him. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion, and that he was alive. Accordingly they believed that he was the Messiah, concerning whom the Prophets have recounted wonders."

The Caiaphas Ossuary: Noone doubts Caiaphas existed.

The Moabite Stone: What does King Mesha have to do with Jesus? Some of the bible is obviously true. Some is obviously false (pretty much all of Genesis, the Exodus, only parts of Joshua and Judges, parts of Kings and Chronicles, all of Esther, etc.

The Pilate Inscription: Of course Pilate existed. Again, though, what about Jesus? If he was such a major figure, and such a remarkable event occured, why no independent documentation?

The Ephesus theater: What is your point about the Ephesus theater?

The Merneptah Stele: Which, might I add, references a battle with Egypt that the Bible does not.

Coal: The page you listed is complete nonsense, I don't even know where to start. Here's a response to Gentry's haloes; uranium decay is so insignificant on the scale of a few thousand years that it is virtually discountable; polystriate fossils (also take note that a plant that grows its root system into the ground by definition has the lower part of itself cross multiple levels); and finally, the amount of clay is relative to other coal sites; the equivalent question could be asked about why a certain other site doesn't have *as much* clay in it (are you expecting there to be *no* variety in coal in the world?). I can double up and refer you to the article "Sixty-five volcanic events recorded in a single coal bed" by the Bulletin of the American Association of Petroleum Geologists, and also ask how virtually every coal deposit contains streams, channels, roots, and soil horizons (as well as, quite frequently, footprints and multiple upright tree horizons). Lastly, on the subject of coal being made in a lab, I refer you to the FAQ about "Mount St. Helens Coal" here.

quote:
For example, if you think we come from monkeys, well where did the monkey's come from?

Here's some of the major steps (I'm leaving out a lot of minor ones)

(*note - some of these may be "sister species" - I can elaborate on that if you would like)
(**note - dates with a ~ are rough approximates from the time period)

1) H. Sapiens Sapiens (us) (40kya)
2) H. Sapiens (500kya)
3) H. Erectus (1.8 Mya)
4) H. Habilis (2.5 Mya)
5) A. Africanus (3.0 Mya)
6) A. Afarensus (3.9 Mya)
7) Ardipithecus Ramidus (5.8 Mya)
8) Orrorin Tugenesis (6 Mya)
9) Sahelanthropus tchadensis (7Mya)
10) Kenyapithecus (16 Mya)
11) Dryopithecus (~16Mya)
12) Proconsul Africanus (~20 Mya)
13) Aegyptopithicus (~30 Mya)
14) Parapithecus (~32 Mya)
15) Amphipithecus, Pondaungia (~35 Mya)
16) Pelycodus, etc (~50 Mya)
17) Cantius (~50 Mya)
18) Palaechthon, Purgatorius (~60 Mya)
19) Kennalestes, Asioryctes (~80 Mya)
20) Pariadens kirklandi (95 Mya)
21) Vincelestes neuquenianus (135 Mya)
22) Steropodon galmani (~140 Mya)
23) Kielantherium and Aegialodon (~140 Mya)
24) Endotherium (very latest Jurassic, 147 Ma)
25) Peramus (~155 Mya)
26) Eozostrodon, Morganucodon, Haldanodon (~205 Mya)
27) Kuehneotherium (~205 Mya)
28) Sinoconodon (~208 Mya)
29) Adelobasileus cromptoni (225 Mya)
30) Pachygenelus, Diarthrognathus (earliest Jurassic, 209 Mya)
31) Oligokyphus, Kayentatherium (early Jurassic, 208 Mya)
32) Probelesodon (~225 Mya?)
33) Exaeretodon (239 Mya)
34) Probainognathus (239-235 Mya)
35) Diademodon (240 Mya)
36) Cynognathus (240 Mya)
37) Thrinaxodon (~240 Mya)
38) Dvinia (Permocynodon) (~245 Mya)
39) Procynosuchus (~245 Mya)
40) Biarmosuchia (~255 Mya)
41) Dimetrodon, Sphenacodon (~270 Mya)
42) Varanops (~275 Mya)
43) Haptodus (~290 Mya)
44) Archaeothyris (~315 Mya)
45) Clepsydrops (~325 Mya)
46) Protoclepsydrops haplous (~325 Mya)
47) Paleothyris (~325 Mya)
48) Hylonomus, Paleothyris (~325 Mya)
49) Limnoscelis, Tseajaia (~325 Mya)
50) Proterogyrinus or another early anthracosaur (~335 Mya)
51) Temnospondyls (Pholidogaster) (330 Mya)
52) Labyrinthodonts (eg Pholidogaster, Pteroplax) (~360 Mya)
53) Hynerpeton, Acanthostega, and Ichthyostega (~365 Mya)
54) Obruchevichthys (370 Mya)
55) Panderichthys, Elpistostege (370 Mya)
56) Eusthenopteron, Sterropterygion (~375 Mya)
57) Osteolepis (~385 Mya)
58) Palaeoniscoids (Cheirolepis, Mimia) (~400 Mya)
59) Acanthodians(?) (~420 Mya)

Beyond this, it gets pretty fragmentary and hard to follow, so I'll stop here. This is a rough listing of the fossils from humans down to jawless fish.

Your "ooze" remarks are about abiogenesis, which is not evolution. There are many who believe in evolution who believe that God created the very first life. It's another topic all together. Evolution is decent with modification from common ancestry.

Finally, if God is answering, please make a recording. If the voice is only in your head, then, well, that should say something to you, shouldn't it?

------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

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