Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,818 Year: 3,075/9,624 Month: 920/1,588 Week: 103/223 Day: 1/13 Hour: 1/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Splintering our Education System based on FAITH
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 31 of 110 (195780)
03-31-2005 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Faith
03-31-2005 2:01 PM


Re: Back to the Future?
Faith writes:
Your ignorance of the success of homeschoolers is remarkable considering that it is well known.
Since you are still relatively new here, you need to be aware that everyone has the right to ask for evidence whenever a claim is made. Someone's ignorance of a topic that is obvious to another does not equal "remarkable," especially when the topic is not so well known.
This message has been edited by Troy, 03-31-2005 03:03 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Faith, posted 03-31-2005 2:01 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by crashfrog, posted 03-31-2005 3:09 PM coffee_addict has not replied
 Message 41 by Faith, posted 03-31-2005 3:22 PM coffee_addict has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 32 of 110 (195781)
03-31-2005 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by tsig
03-31-2005 2:36 PM


Re: Not lost
Why don't christians establish universitys along these lines, then when their sucess became obvious, students would flock to them, money would flow, and all the great profs would want to teach there?
The Trivium is Elementary School, the Quadrivium roughly Jr. High to High School.
I'd love to see a new Harvard or Yale established along the lines of the originals. I hope it comes about. But it would be Christian down to the prayers and chapel services and mandatory Bible study, and not terribly comfortable for a secularist professor.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by tsig, posted 03-31-2005 2:36 PM tsig has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by jar, posted 03-31-2005 3:11 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 37 by tsig, posted 03-31-2005 3:13 PM Faith has not replied

bob_gray
Member (Idle past 5014 days)
Posts: 243
From: Virginia
Joined: 05-03-2004


Message 33 of 110 (195782)
03-31-2005 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Faith
03-31-2005 2:47 PM


Re: Homeschooling today and tomorrow
Again, I'm not pursuing the topic of homeschooling as such. I only brought it up to answer Holmes' suspicion that all forms of Christian schooling would put children at odds with the mainstream. He is wrong. They are taught the same subjects, only so far a better job is being done with them -- for whatever reason.
Having been in a Christian school myself I would have to agree with this statement, mostly. It depends on what Christian school you attend. If you attend a YEC Christian school then you would indeed be at odds with mainstream science. If you attend a Catholic school (as I did) then you would be taught evolution and all the other sciences in exactly the same way as they are found in the mainstream. I can’t speak to the Protestant schools since I have no experience with them. As an interesting side note women who attend Catholic schools pursue math and science related degrees at a much higher rate than those who attend public schools.
I realize that my personal experience is simply anecdotal evidence but I will share it anyway. It has been my experience as a teacher that the students I get who tell me they are home schooled come in only two flavors, very well prepared and no clue at all (split about 50/50 among the two groups). I imagine there must be others in my classes but they don’t all tell me their educational background.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Faith, posted 03-31-2005 2:47 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by CK, posted 03-31-2005 3:12 PM bob_gray has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 34 of 110 (195783)
03-31-2005 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by coffee_addict
03-31-2005 3:03 PM


Since you are still relatively new here, you need to be aware that everyone has the right to ask for evidence whenever a claim is made.
I guess you haven't had this conversation with Faith yet. She finds it unspeakably rude that you don't simply take her word for every assertion she makes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by coffee_addict, posted 03-31-2005 3:03 PM coffee_addict has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by tsig, posted 03-31-2005 3:18 PM crashfrog has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 35 of 110 (195784)
03-31-2005 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Faith
03-31-2005 3:04 PM


Re: Not lost
But it would be Christian down to the prayers and chapel services and mandatory Bible study, and not terribly comfortable for a secularist professor.
As a product of just such an environment I can possibly offer a little insight. Had it not been for my Christian schooling I might not be fully in support of the Theory of Evolution today nor would I have as great an understanding of the Bible or Christianity.
In particular, mandatory Bible study when combined with mandatory study of other faiths, religions and philosophies is a great idea.
It was also a great place for secularist professors and they would have to be a key component if it is to be anything more than a brainwashing program designed to produce cultists.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Faith, posted 03-31-2005 3:04 PM Faith has not replied

CK
Member (Idle past 4128 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 36 of 110 (195785)
03-31-2005 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by bob_gray
03-31-2005 3:07 PM


Re: Homeschooling today and tomorrow
Bob - sounds about right - I never really encountered a middle ground either.They were either very good or basketcases.
Ah teaching.... that was a job and half....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by bob_gray, posted 03-31-2005 3:07 PM bob_gray has not replied

tsig
Member (Idle past 2909 days)
Posts: 738
From: USA
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 37 of 110 (195786)
03-31-2005 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Faith
03-31-2005 3:04 PM


Re: Not lost
The Trivium is Elementary School, the Quadrivium roughly Jr. High to High School.
I thought they were taught at what we might consider the college level. IIRC there was no Elementery or High school.
By the way I never really thanked you for the links. We might disagree with what they mean, but was so refreshing to see evidence to look at.
Also, you were right, home-schoolers do test better.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Faith, posted 03-31-2005 3:04 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by CK, posted 03-31-2005 3:19 PM tsig has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 38 of 110 (195788)
03-31-2005 3:17 PM


The issue of input material.
One thing that has to be stressed and that is often overlooked in examination of Public School Systems is that the schools have no control over the quality of the raw materials they are forced to work with. Any non-public school system would be expected to do better simply because they have some control over the raw materials. The productivity and performance of students is not under the control of the teachers, it is the responsibility of the parents. If the parents are not motivated to prepare the raw materials, then the product that comes out of the school will be crap.
The schools have not failed, the parents have.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by tsig, posted 03-31-2005 3:28 PM jar has replied

tsig
Member (Idle past 2909 days)
Posts: 738
From: USA
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 39 of 110 (195789)
03-31-2005 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by crashfrog
03-31-2005 3:09 PM


leaping without looking
I guess you haven't had this conversation with Faith yet. She finds it unspeakably rude that you don't simply take her word for every assertion she makes.
Crash, she did reply and provided links, think you leaped without looking here. Happy landings.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by crashfrog, posted 03-31-2005 3:09 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by crashfrog, posted 03-31-2005 3:30 PM tsig has replied

CK
Member (Idle past 4128 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 40 of 110 (195790)
03-31-2005 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by tsig
03-31-2005 3:13 PM


Re: Not lost
Yes home-schoolers do seem to test better as a group.That does not mean that people following the specific Curricula suggested by Faith (vague as it is) would do so.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by tsig, posted 03-31-2005 3:13 PM tsig has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by tsig, posted 03-31-2005 3:38 PM CK has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 41 of 110 (195792)
03-31-2005 3:22 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by coffee_addict
03-31-2005 3:03 PM


Re: Back to the Future?
Since you are still relatively new here, you need to be aware that everyone has the right to ask for evidence whenever a claim is made. Someone's ignorance of a topic that is obvious to another does not equal "remarkable," especially when the topic is not so well known.
Well, I've been here long enough to have been "treated" to this "asking" in forms that are better described as demanding or commanding, and often about things that I do think should be common knowledge or trivial claims not central to the topic. It gets to be more like a method of gleeful torture than an attempt to understand anything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by coffee_addict, posted 03-31-2005 3:03 PM coffee_addict has not replied

tsig
Member (Idle past 2909 days)
Posts: 738
From: USA
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 42 of 110 (195796)
03-31-2005 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by jar
03-31-2005 3:17 PM


Re: The issue of input material.
One thing that has to be stressed and that is often overlooked in examination of Public School Systems is that the schools have no control over the quality of the raw materials they are forced to work with. Any non-public school system would be expected to do better simply because they have some control over the raw materials. The productivity and performance of students is not under the control of the teachers, it is the responsibility of the parents. If the parents are not motivated to prepare the raw materials, then the product that comes out of the school will be crap.
It's the self-selection factor. I would expect any group tha can select it's own members to be different than the general public. no?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by jar, posted 03-31-2005 3:17 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by jar, posted 03-31-2005 3:50 PM tsig has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 43 of 110 (195798)
03-31-2005 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by tsig
03-31-2005 3:18 PM


Re: leaping without looking
Crash, she did reply and provided links, think you leaped without looking here. Happy landings.
I hadn't seen that, but my comments did accurately reflect the substance of conversations had in this thread. It was literally referred to as "rude" to challenge an assertion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by tsig, posted 03-31-2005 3:18 PM tsig has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by tsig, posted 03-31-2005 3:41 PM crashfrog has not replied

kjsimons
Member
Posts: 821
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003
Member Rating: 6.7


Message 44 of 110 (195800)
03-31-2005 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Faith
03-31-2005 2:58 PM


Re: Back to the Future?
Can you give evidence of such anti-science homeschooling curricula? That is VERY VERY far from my observation of what is taught in Christian homeschooling. Science is very well taught.
Some of the home schooling curricula looked very good, it's the ones I seen like in the following link that are anti-science.
Learningbygrace.org

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Faith, posted 03-31-2005 2:58 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by Faith, posted 03-31-2005 3:44 PM kjsimons has replied

tsig
Member (Idle past 2909 days)
Posts: 738
From: USA
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 45 of 110 (195801)
03-31-2005 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by CK
03-31-2005 3:19 PM


OT
Yes home-schoolers do seem to test better as a group.That does not mean that people following the specific Curricula suggested by Faith (vague as it is) would do so.
OK, we seem to be a little afield here.
We have already seen efforts to splinter the education system. Vouchers are one of the ways that seek to chanel gov. money to churches and thier affiliates.
I think Holmes's case is proved by the actions of the Kansas School Board for one

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by CK, posted 03-31-2005 3:19 PM CK has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by Faith, posted 03-31-2005 3:49 PM tsig has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024