International Aspects of Creationism/ID

What would histories greatest thinkers say about all this controvery, if they were suddenly alive today?Would they want to quickly read and catch up on all the facts of both sides, and attempt to wiegh the evidence?Or would they dig below the surface...to the philosophical undercurrents driving both sides?This message has been edited by Limbo, 05-14-2005 05:00 PM

Is that the extent of your thoughts on the matter? C'mon, open up your mind.

Suppose you are accused of a crime that you know you didn't commit, and the evidence stands against you. Are you obliged to believe that you're guilty because the evidence stands against you?

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Your personal experience is generally better evidence than anything a prosecutor could provide you with.

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Remember that next time a Christian says their own spiritual experiences about God are better evidence than anything a scientist could provide them with.

I think they would be appauled at the vast gulf between our knowledge and our wisdom, they would be appauled at the manipulative tactics the media uses for both sides, and they would be appauled at the lack of critical, objective thinking going on.

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yes, I see the point you are making. I hope you don't feel like you're being wrongly accused of a crime just because you believe in God. that would be awful.

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Thank you, Mick. To answer your question, no I dont feel like Im being accused of a legal crime yet, but I do feel as if I am being accused of an intellectual crime, mainly my distrust of the scientific community.I worry that in the far distant future, if Darwinians win, it could indeed become a crime to be religious.By the same token, I worry that if organized religion wins, it could be illegal NOT to.Both are unacceptable, and both sides must work together to prevent either outcome. Balance is the only path that preserves freedom.This message has been edited by Limbo, 05-14-2005 07:23 PMThis message has been edited by Limbo, 05-14-2005 07:25 PM

Hmm...an up-side

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but I don't think all religions can be 'ruled out' by darwinism: there are a lot of deeply religious people that have no problem with evolutions mechanisms, because they aren't "wedded" to any specific creation belief.

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Maybe not, but they could eventually be ruled out by pure unchallenged philosophical naturalism...the father of secular religions and dogma. So which will it be? Naturalism, in which we have no soul, no destiny, no cosmic karma, no essence, no spark?Or some kind of dualism, in which we are more than just the sum of our earthly parts?In the end, we can't have both.This message has been edited by Limbo, 05-14-2005 10:08 PM

So, do you believe you have a soul, RAZD? What do you believe happens after death?

Forgive my ignorance, but I was under the impression that Deism is based on the belief that the universe was created by a God who then made no further intervention in its affairs, like the "Divine Watchmaker" who created a mechanism so perfect as to be self-regulating. Im not sure how the Zen part factors in.I mean, you say "I don't believe you can know." but I would expect to hear that from an agnostic.This message has been edited by Limbo, 05-14-2005 10:29 PM

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tend to prefer god becoming the universe, emulating self in the process and exhaling the words "surprise me" ...

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Very interesting. We have something in common then, the belief that something could have at one time been outside of nature i.e. supernatural in the purest sence of the word.It seems inconsistant with a Darwinian worldview so far.This is the root of the problem. The average person on the street has little idea of the full philosophical implications of Darwinism, and how they lead to inconsistant philosophical worldviews for Americans.Religious people sence these inconsistancies easily...they just have a hard time separting their religious views from their philosophical views...add on top of that the difficulty separating the theories of science from the philosophical implications of these theories and its easy to see why there is so much inconsistancy and contradiction in American culture.This message has been edited by Limbo, 05-14-2005 11:14 PM

Love to! Ill check the links out and get back to you tomorrow!