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Author Topic:   Why Only Creationism So Politicized?
PE's been savaged
Inactive Member


Message 107 of 155 (72560)
12-12-2003 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by MrHambre
12-11-2003 6:05 AM


Re: You Can Lead a Corpse to Water
Let's not forget the merely passing familiarity he demonstrates with Richard Dawkins's Selfish Gene. Despite the fact he considers the work one of the cornerstones of technical biological literature and evolutionary theory, he's never read past the title. That's why he asserts that Dawkins (and therefore evolutionary theory in general) believes people are 'born selfish' since they have this 'selfishness gene.' Even if you tried to explain to him Dawkins's admittedly reductionist but useful metaphor of genes using organisms for their own propagation, you'd get nowhere. Just ask zephyr and Primordial Egg.

If memory serves me correctly, Syamsu was talking about the sort of people who might confuse an is with an ought (he'll sometimes refer to these people as "psychologists" or "paediatricians"), and never really admitting he was one of those very people.

I stopped debating him because it didn't look like he was reading my posts. I'm incredibly impressed with Mark and Mammuthus's persistence to be honest.

PE (BS)

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This is Primordial Egg having to operate under a different name due to an unfortunate posting injury. This id will buthcered once I get my old one back


This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by MrHambre, posted 12-11-2003 6:05 AM MrHambre has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by NosyNed, posted 12-12-2003 3:15 PM PE's been savaged has responded

  
PE's been savaged
Inactive Member


Message 109 of 155 (72564)
12-12-2003 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by NosyNed
12-12-2003 3:15 PM


Re: Misplaced Persistance
Why bother?

I'd love to know what was going on inside his head. Like most (note: not all) creationists, I think, he genuinely does think he's giving full and proper answers to questions, not being wilfully evasive.

The fact that he doesn't ever provide a single piece of evidence to back up any of his claims is insightful though.

(Guess this is OT though, don't want to derail the thread- I feel like a marked man after my resurrection).

PE (BS)

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This is Primordial Egg having to operate under a different name due to an unfortunate posting injury. This id will butchered once I get my old one back


This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by NosyNed, posted 12-12-2003 3:15 PM NosyNed has not yet responded

  
PE's been savaged
Inactive Member


Message 111 of 155 (72604)
12-12-2003 8:16 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by Syamsu
12-12-2003 7:57 PM


deja vu
Syamsu,

quote:
"We are born selfish" (Richard Dawkins, preface The Selfish Gene)

We discussed this at length already - you might remember (this post?)

Remember, in that post, the entire preface of The Selfish Gene was linked to and in particular I higlighted:

This brings me to the first point I want to make about what this book is not. I am not advocating a morality based on evolution. I am saying how things have evolved. I am not saying how we humans morally ought to behave. I stress this, because I know I am in danger of being misunderstood by those people, all toll numerous, who cannot distinguish a statement of belief in what is the case from an advocacy of what ought to be the case. My own feeling is that a human society based simply on the gene's law of universal ruthless selfishness would be a very nasty society in which to live. But unfortunately, however much we may deplore something, it does not stop it being true. This book is mainly intended to be interesting, but if you would extract a moral from it, read it as a warning. Be warned that if you wish, as I do, to build a society in which individuals cooperate generously and unselfishly towards a common good, you can expect little help from biological nature. Let us try to teach generosity and altruism, because we are born selfish. Let us understand what our own selfish genes are up to, because we may then at least have the chance to upset their designs, something that no other species has ever aspired to.

You've taken less than a sentence out of the preface to imply a moral imperative which was the exact opposite of what Dawkins was saying. And you knew this was the opposite of what Dawkins was saying because we'd discussed this to death. Why would you do this?

It is a shame you bring this up again. Makes you look forgetful at best.

PE (BS)

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This is Primordial Egg having to operate under a different name due to an unfortunate posting injury. This id will be butchered once I get my old one back.

[This message has been edited by PE's been savaged, 12-12-2003]


This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Syamsu, posted 12-12-2003 7:57 PM Syamsu has not yet responded

  
PE's been savaged
Inactive Member


Message 112 of 155 (72607)
12-12-2003 8:34 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by Syamsu
12-12-2003 7:57 PM


and another thing
I've just gone through the preface and found the ONLY use of the phrase "we are born selfish" in the preface. It occurs in this sentence:

Let us try to teach generosity and altruism, because we are born selfish.

Now there are three things worthy of note here:

1) if you had read the preface you have taken out a quote to deliberately distort what Dawkins was saying. This makes you a liar.

2) If you hadn't read the preface, my guess is that you took this phrase from my quote to you as linked to in my last post. This means that you could still read the whole sentence and are therefore a liar.

3) As far as I can tell, your only defence here is to say you didn't read the preface properly. But given that we discussed this at length previously, this too is near impossible to conceive. Which, I'm afraid, makes you a liar.

I don't get it. Why would you be so blatant about it?

PE (BS)

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This is Primordial Egg having to operate under a different name due to an unfortunate posting injury. This id will be butchered once I get my old one back.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Syamsu, posted 12-12-2003 7:57 PM Syamsu has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by Syamsu, posted 12-14-2003 3:36 AM PE's been savaged has not yet responded

  
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