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Author Topic:   What's the problem with teaching ID?
ringo
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Posts: 17573
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 36 of 337 (424251)
09-26-2007 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by DivineBeginning
09-26-2007 9:49 AM


DivineBeginning writes:

I happen to have faith in the divine creation of the world we live in. For me, it's easier that way.

Isn't it better to teach what's right instead of what's easy?

quote:
Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.


“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by DivineBeginning, posted 09-26-2007 9:49 AM DivineBeginning has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by DivineBeginning, posted 09-27-2007 8:20 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17573
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 44 of 337 (424287)
09-26-2007 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by pbee
09-26-2007 12:41 PM


pbee writes:

Science has nothing but convoluted theories and dead ends.

That says it all right there, doesn't it? Let's throw science out with the bath water.

The topic is about teaching ID in science class. If you're going to dismiss science as "convoluted theories and dead ends", what's the point of teaching science at all?


“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by pbee, posted 09-26-2007 12:41 PM pbee has responded

Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member
Posts: 17573
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 52 of 337 (424298)
09-26-2007 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by pbee
09-26-2007 1:16 PM


pbee writes:

This was in reference to deciphering the origin of life and not science as a whole.

So what? You can't just cherry-pick the bits of science you like and throw out what you don't like. It's all interrelated. if you throw out the science of origins, you're throwing out all of it.

When it comes to evaluating the origins of life, science has nothing logical to offer.

You're welcome to bring that opinion to the science forums and back it up with facts.

If anything, the general scientific mindset harbors serious limitations to the honest and open evaluation of life and origin.

And there y'go, betraying your general disdain for science.


“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by pbee, posted 09-26-2007 1:16 PM pbee has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by pbee, posted 09-26-2007 1:50 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17573
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 56 of 337 (424311)
09-26-2007 2:09 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by pbee
09-26-2007 1:50 PM


pbee writes:

Really? you mean the science police will come and arrest me for selecting logical theories over the illogical ones?

You'll be expected to show how the accepted theories are "illogical" and how your ideas better explain the evidence.

As a free spirited being, I will independently evaluate and conclude what is, and is not, acceptable where science and beliefs are concerned.

Your personal "acceptance" is worthless. Science works by consensus - and even the school boards who accept/reject science work by consensus.

Might I add that only mindless fools would live otherwise(but they do exist nonetheless).

Only mindless fools prefer their own delusions to the tested conclusions of the collected best minds in the world.

quote:
You're welcome to bring that opinion to the science forums and back it up with facts.

We have nothing.

I know you have nothing. That's why you're afraid to back up your empty opinions in the science forums.


“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by pbee, posted 09-26-2007 1:50 PM pbee has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by pbee, posted 09-26-2007 2:51 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17573
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 61 of 337 (424327)
09-26-2007 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by pbee
09-26-2007 2:51 PM


pbee writes:

last I looked, we existed without any *scientific explanations to that effect.

Look harder.

I was under the impression that we were all independent beings with the inherent capacity of free thought.

We are free to think what we like. Our thoughts are more likely to be accurate/useful if they agree with the thoughts of others.

Those who trust their own thoughts too much are likely to turn out like Charles Manson.

There is as much worth(if not more) to the theory of creation than the originating of matter from nothing....

Do you really expect anybody to respect your individual "free thoughts" on science when you display such abject ignorance?

Radical atheists, are very careful not to cross the line into eternal realms.

What do atheists have to do with what we're discussing?


“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by pbee, posted 09-26-2007 2:51 PM pbee has responded

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ringo
Member
Posts: 17573
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 106 of 337 (424533)
09-27-2007 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by DivineBeginning
09-27-2007 8:20 AM


DivineBeginning writes:

You think being a Christian is easy?

I was responding to what you said in Message 33:

quote:
I happen to have faith in the divine creation of the world we live in. For me, it's easier that way.

You said that it was easier for you.

I simply suggested that we should be teaching our children what's right, not what's easy for us. I quoted Jesus saying the same thing.

As for persecution, it's probably not easy being a Muslim in a Christian majority or a Mormon in a Christian majority or a Jehovah's Witness in a Christian majority. In a country with many minorities, which version of ID would you teach? Could you really teach ID without the Designer looking like your personal God?

In the end, once you've said, "That looks like it was designed," what else can you teach about ID? All you have left is partisan descriptions of what the Designer is like.


“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by DivineBeginning, posted 09-27-2007 8:20 AM DivineBeginning has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17573
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 116 of 337 (428766)
10-17-2007 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by Spektical
10-17-2007 3:07 PM


Re: The Hammer Has Come Down
Spektical writes:

Religion is ONLY a capitalistic tool.

I don't know if I'd emphasize "only" :) but I tend to agree. I've suggested in other threads that the original purpose of the levitical law was to provide a reliable food source for the priests. There may be some innate "need" for the spiritual in humans but religion per se is about the exploitation of that need.

Similarly, the religion of creationism/ID is an exploitation of the human need to know. You can get "knowledge" to rival the best scientists in exchange for cash - and watching a video is a lot quicker than getting a degree.

If we're going to teach ID in schools, we might as well teach every other get-rich-quick scam while we're at it.

Edited by Ringo, : Speling.


“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Spektical, posted 10-17-2007 3:07 PM Spektical has not yet responded

  
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