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Member (Idle past 5182 days) Posts: 649 From: Melbourne, Australia Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Ok. Why not. Let's teach ID in Science class! | |||||||||||||||||||||||
macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3948 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
grumpy.
so glad this isn't about gaining knowledge.
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AdminJar Inactive Member |
You have been told this is Off Topic yet you persist in carrying on side conversations and off topic remarks. There was absolutely no reason for that post.
Take any discussion to the appropriate thred. Do not respond to this message. If you continue your current behavior you will be suspended. Comments on moderation procedures (or wish to respond to admin messages)? - Go to:
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rogerw1 Inactive Member |
Thanks you answered my question. I understand what your saying .I believe anthropology as a science presents strong evidence in itself in continuing its research in evolution. I see the problem the other side has with this also, when references are made and compared in regard to religous beliefs it is a oneway street . Most of the students are young and the future of our evolution. this is an attack on their beliefs . You are the only on on the disscusion site that can come out and admitted "let me say that they really don't "need" to mention the book of Genesis when discussing evolution " when others come to this realization and just teach the science there is no more battlefield there nothing left to argue . both sides win . My fear is if the two subjects arent totally seperated we all lose. I rambled on more than I wanted to here . I respect you reply if there were more teachers with your view we would be better off thanks again
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2512 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
I wish more people thought like you.
just teach the science there is no more battlefield there nothing left to argue . both sides win . My fear is if the two subjects arent totally seperated we all lose. The problem lies not in the topic, but in the politics. Evolution can very easily and successfully be taught with absolutely no reference to any religion. And so long as no one raises a religious question, there is frankly no need to go into the subject at all. However, the main thrust of a small but strong political movement is to strike all references to evolution from textbooks, and to teach, not just religious Creationism, but a very very specific form of religious Creationism (to the exclusion of all other religions). For a while scientists have tried to ignore them, figuring that the general population is smart enough to know real science from fanatical zealotry. Unfortunately, it's very easy to over estimate the intelligence of the American public. Ignoring this battlefront only allows it to fester. The fanatical religious extremists want their agenda no matter what. Ignoring them doesn't make them go away. As a result, increasingly over the last 50 years or so, scientists have been forced to take a much more proactive stance, trying to prevent the extremists from dismantling the entire education system.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
Nuggin writes:
quote: And that's precisely the point: Evolution as it is taught in the public schools doesn't mention religion at all. That would be a violation of the Establishment Clause. Can anybody find me an example of a public school biology textbook that talks about religion and how it relates to evolutionary theory? Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
rogerw1 writes:
quote: Um, what book was this? What school was this? What teacher was this? What educator seemed to think that teaching evolution required talking about any religious concept?
quote: Could you give us an example? What textbook was this? What school was this? What teacher was this?
quote: But you are confusing a "hole" in the sense that there are things that we do not yet know with a "hole" in the sense that the entire theory is a fallacy. There is a difference between two mathematicians arguing over whether or not the six millionth digit of pi is a 2 and them arguing over whether or not pi is an integer. Do you see the difference? Yes, there are things about evolution that we do not yet understand. That's what makes evolution such a dynamic and vital field of research. If there were nothing left to learn, then there wouldn't be an research to carry out. But the fact that we don't know things, the fact that there are disagreements about details within evolutionary theory, none of that means that evolution is somehow weak and flimsy.
quote: Incorrect. If you think science has anything to do with faith, then you don't understand what science is.
quote: What an insulting thing to say. Are you claiming that atheists have no morals and would just as soon kill you as look at you? Just because there is no god doesn't mean there aren't any rules. It simply means that the rules don't come from god.
quote: Incorrect. It is the only valid option given our government's commitment to secular rule. Or do you not think the First Amendment is a good thing? Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.
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rogerw1 Inactive Member |
we were refering to my college class. just to let you know
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rogerw1 Inactive Member |
Biological Anthropology: An Introductory Reader (Paperback)
by Michael Alan Park, Michael Park Editorial Reviews Book DescriptionThis supplementary reader offers both historical and contemporary articles that demonstrate the significant contributions made by biological anthropology. With nearly a third of the selections focusing on living populations, the 42 articles cover the entire range of bioanthropological studies: evolution, nonhuman primates, human paleontology, and modern human groups. About the AuthorMichael Alan Park (Ph.D. Indiana, 1979) is a professor of anthropology at Central Connecticut State University, where he has been on the faculty since 1973, teaching courses in general anthropology, human evolution, biocultural diversity, human ecology, forensic anthropology, and the evolution of human behavior. His interests focus on the application of evolutionary theory to the story of human evolution and on the quality of science education and the public perception and understanding of scientific matters. He is the author or co-author of four current texts in anthropology as well as technical and popular articles
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nator Member (Idle past 2190 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Good for you.
quote: OK, which is it? Is my statement "dead on", "correct", or "screwed up"?
quote: This is the statement you are responding to in message #38: Uh, I was taught critical thinking in a classroom context. The course title was "The Nature of Scientific Inquiry." I am not sure what your comment had to do with this comment. Please explain.
quote: Well, no. I would correct the above to say, "no unanswered scientific question with a good chance of yielding fruitful results", no grant money.
quote: Creationists are getting grant money to perform scientific research? Where? Who? When?
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nator Member (Idle past 2190 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: I agree. Which creation stories should we teach?
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nator Member (Idle past 2190 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Did they have to go over capitalising the first words of sentences, too? Seriously, that shows the enormous range of quality of US public high schools. My honor's English class did nothing of the sort, and I don't remember being taught that in class past 6th grade.
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2512 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
Before I go off on this guy...
You weren't actually at Central Conn. State were you?
His interests focus on the application of evolutionary theory to the story of human evolution and on the quality of science education and the public perception and understanding of scientific matters. Also, this is key "public perception and understanding of scientific matters". That's why he mentions Creationism so much. Although, I think your original point is still very valid - the professor who was selecting curriculum should either have set up a different outline or picked a book that didn't conflict with the outline he had choosen. Just out of curriosity, when we the book published?
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2512 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
Seriously, that shows the enormous range of quality of US public high schools. My honor's English class did nothing of the sort, and I don't remember being taught that in class past 6th grade. Which raises an interesting pair of questions - How old are you and where did you go to school?
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3948 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
actually. it is a very good question. it might demonstrate the particular problem. the deterioration of the quality of schools and the range that she so well picked up on.
i'm 22 (i think) and i graduated in florida. our math was also weak and i so could have done algebra before 8th grade. but no one would let me.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
rogerw1, thanks for the text reference, but you didn't give any specific passages. The description that you culled from Amazon doesn't mention anything about creationism in general or Genesis in specific. Amazon has yet to put up any text from the book for me to search inside it.
I went to McGraw-Hill Ryerson and found the following table of contents:
PART I. BEING A BIOLOGICAL ANTHROPOLOGIST 1. Donald Johanson and Maitland Edey, "Finding Lucy," from Lucy: The Beginnings of Humankind, 1980 2. Agustín Fuentes, "Monkey Business in Bali: Field Work and Teaching Among the Temple Macaques" 3. *Michael Alan Park. "The Homegoing," from Lessons from the Past: An Introductory Reader in Archaeology, 1999. 4. Katherine A. Dettwyler, "Bad Breath, Gangrene, and God's Angels," from Dancing Skeletons: Life and Death in West Africa, 1994 PART II. THE NATURE OF SCIENCE5. Stephen Jay Gould, "Sex, Drugs, Disasters, and the Extinction of Dinosaurs," from The Flamingo's Smile, 1985 *6. Kenneth L. Feder, "Piltdown, Paradigms, and the Paranormal." from Skeptical Inquirer, 1990 7. John A. Moore, "Science as a Way of Knowing," from Science as a Way of Knowing: The Foundations of Modern Biology, 1993 PART III. THE EVOLUTION OF EVOLUTION8. Jean Baptiste Pierre Antoine de Monet de Lamarck, "The Inheritance of Acquired Characteristics," from Philosophie zoologique, 1809 9. Charles R. Darwin and Alfred Russel Wallace, "Natural Selection," from "The Linnean Society Papers," 1859 10. Johann Gregor Mendel, "The Laws of Inheritance," from "Experiments in Plant Hybridization," 1866 11. Stephen Jay Gould, "Evolution As Fact and Theory," from Hen's Teeth and Horse's Toes, 1983 12. Robert S. Root-Bernstein, "Darwin's Rib," from Discover, 1995 PART IV. THE PROCESS OF EVOLUTION13. Jared Diamond, "Curse and Blessing of the Ghetto," from Discover, 1991 14. Josie Glausiusz, "Unfortunate Drift," from Discover, 1995 15. Stephen Jay Gould, "What Is a Species?," from Discover, 1992 PART V. THE PRIMATES AND PRIMATE BEHAVIOR16. Jonathan Marks, "98% Alike? (What Our Similarity to Apes Tells Us About Our Understanding of Genetics) from The Chronicle of Higher Education, 2000 17. Karen B. Strier, "Menu for a Monkey," from Natural History, 1993 18. *Craig Stanford, "Close Encounters" from Natural History, 2003 19. Gretchen Vogel, "Chimps in the Wild Show Stirrings of Culture," from Science, December, 2002, pp. 74-83 20. Robert W. Sussman, "Exploring Our Basic Human Nature: Are Humans Inherently Violent?" from AnthroNotes, 1997 PART VI. HOMINID EVOLUTION21. Russell L. Ciochon, "The Ape That Was," from Natural History, 1991 22. *William R. Leonard, "Food for thought," from Scientific American, December, 2002 23. Ann Gibbons, "The Riddle of Coexistence," from Science,2001 24. Matt Cartmill, "The Gift of Gab," from Discover, 1998 PART VII. THE BIOANTHROPOLOGY OF MODERN HUMAN POPULATIONS25. Donald K. Grayson, "Differential Mortality and the Donner Party Disaster," from Evolutionary Anthropology, 1993 26. *Nina G. Jablonski and George Chaplin, "Skin deep," from Scientific American, October, 2002 27. George J. Armelagos, Kathleen C. Barnes, and James Lin, "Disease in Human Evolution: The Re-Emergence of Infectious Disease in the Third Epidemolgoical Transition," from AnthroNotes,1996 PART VIII: HUMAN BIODIVERSITY28. Anne Fausto-Sterling, "The Five Sexes, Revisted" fromThe Sciences, 2000 29. Carolus Linnaeus, "An Early Racial Taxonomy from "Systema naturae" (10th ed, 1758) 30. Jonathan Marks, "Science and Race" from American Behavioral Scientist,1996 31. Jared Diamond, "Who Are the Jews?" from Natural History, 1993 32. Matt Carmill, "The Third Man," from Discover,1997 PART IX: BIOANTHROPOLOGY AND THE HUMAN GENOME33. *Svante Pbo, "The Mosiaic That Is Our Genome" from Nature, 2003 34. Elizabeth Pennisi, "Tracking the Sexes by Their Genes" from Science, 2001 PART X. BIOLOGICAL ANTHROPOLOGY: APPLIED AND CONSIDERED35. Randolph M. Nesse and George C. Williams, "Evolution and the Origins of Disease" from Scientific American, 1998 36. Jerome C. Rose and Thomas J. Green, "NAGPRA and the Future of Skeletal Research," from General Anthropology, 1997 37. *James H. Dickson, Klaus Oeggl, and Linda L. Handley, "The Iceman Reconsidered", from Scientific American, 2003 38. *Karen R. Rosenberg and Wenda R. Trevathan, "The Evolution of Human Birth," from Scientific American, 2001 39. Douglas W. Owsley, Davor Strinovic, Mario Slaus, Dana D. Kollmann, and Malcom L. Richardson, "Recovery and Identification of Civilan Victims of War in Croatia," from Cultural Resource Management, 1996 40. *P.V. Tobias, "Saartje Baartman: Her Life, Her Times, Her Remains, and the Negotiations for Their Repatriation from France to South Africa," from South African Journal of Science, 2002 41. Robin A. Weiss and Richard W. Wrangham, "From Pan to Pandemic," from Nature, 1999 42. *Gretchen Vogel, "Can Great Apes Be Saved From Ebola?" from Science, June 2003 The book appears to be a collection of articles. One of them happens to be "Evolution as Fact and Theory" by Gould from Hen's Teeth and Horse's Toes, which I happen to have a copy of. The article does give creationism a hard time, but it doesn't mention anything about Genesis. It does, however, talk about an extremely important area of science: Just what is a theory, what is a fact, and why is evolution both a theory and a fact? Creationism simply isn't scientific. This doesn't mean there is no god. Are you saying that a course in biological evolution shouldn't talk about why evolution is a fact? A case might be made about how one goes about talking about how evolution is a fact, but should we not mention the truth of the matter that evolution is, indeed, a fact? Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.
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