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Author Topic:   Why is uniformitarianim still taught?
Member (Idle past 553 days)
Posts: 7789
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005

Message 71 of 89 (548092)
02-25-2010 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by jasonkthompson
02-25-2010 12:36 PM

Creationists use inductive logic.
Young-earth creationists, of which I am one, reason deductively, starting by assuming the Bible is true (and mostly literal) and working down to what we see and have discovered about the world. We will doubt any scientific principle that does not coincide with biblical belief because such principles have come about inductively, based on observations of the present world first and then reaching conclusions.

I'm reasonably confident that "Young-earth creationists...reason deductively" is a position you have had to arrive at inductively...unless you have spoken with every single YEC that has ever lived?

If you think that creationists don't use inductive logic then you are simply, trivially, and obviously wrong. You do, you just did and you will do so again.

In fact - Jesus was famous for giving specific examples and encouraging his followers to draw general conclusions. This is induction. Naturally you will withdraw you naive comments and come back with something more nuanced to talk about.

Welcome to EvC jason! We have plenty of current threads to participate in - this one is like 6 years old :-D

Edited by Modulous, : Necromancy ftw

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by jasonkthompson, posted 02-25-2010 12:36 PM jasonkthompson has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by jasonkthompson, posted 02-25-2010 5:06 PM Modulous has responded

Member (Idle past 553 days)
Posts: 7789
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005

Message 82 of 89 (548144)
02-25-2010 8:03 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by jasonkthompson
02-25-2010 5:06 PM

Re: Creationists use inductive logic.
I don't believe that YEC's ALWAYS reason deductively in every aspect of life, that would be absurd. But in the realm of origins, creation and evolution, the reasoning is deductive.

I still think you are obviously wrong.

IF YECs reasoned thusly:


The Bible is absolute truth.
Uniformitarianism contradicts the Bible.
Therefore uniformitarianism is not true.

Then you would have a point. But YECs don't do that. Some might, but the inductive leap that all do can be falsified by a single example. I present Michael J. Oard who says:

Changes in temperature or chemistry of the water could force the rapid precipitation of silica over a local or regional scale, sometimes with radiolarian organisms within the precipitate.

He then goes on to discuss some ideas based on the above. You can read the whole thing here. Here is taking a specific set of examples from the literature, and attempting to draw a general conclusion about how changes in chemistry and temperature in a completely different circumstance could have the same impact as the examples.


Indeed - there is so much pseudoscience behind Creationism I'm surprised you've missed it. YEC websites aren't a sequence of deductive statements. They are filled with inductive reasoning as a means to trying to prove the earth is young (or as a means of persuading people they have proven the earth is young, if you're more cynical like me).

I have more than a single example, indeed I have enough to make an induction that, on the whole creationists tend to use induction when they are talking about origins.

Here's a good one, easier to understand my point but not on topic so is used merely to illuminate the point above:

The universe is fine tuned, and demands a designer.

What is this based on ?

The supposed fact that all of the things that we have encountered that are fine tuned are designed intelligently therefore we can inductively conclude that another thing that is fine tuned is designed, QED.

Come on - induction is all over the place, you can't miss it!

jason, in another post writes:

Science doesn't speak on the existence of God because it intends to explain nature without God.

Newton, if he could hear you say that, would say something incredibly clever and derisory if he even deemed it worth his time to look at, let alone cogitate. For Newton, science was a way to understand god beyond mere anthropomorphic notions:

We know him only by his most wise and excellent contrivances of things, and final causes; we admire him for his perfections; but we reverence and adore him on account of his dominion. For we adore him as his servants; and a God without dominion, providence, and final causes, is nothing else but Fate and Nature. Blind metaphysical necessity, which is certainly the same always and every where, could produce no variety of things. All that diversity of natural things which we find, suited to different times and places, could arise from nothing but the ideas and will of a Being necessarily existing. But by way of allegory, God is said to see, to speak, to laugh, to love, to hate, to desire, to give, to receive, to rejoice, to be angry, to fight, to frame, to work, to build. For all our notions of God are taken from the ways of mankind, by a certain similitude which, though not perfect, has some likeness however. And thus much concerning God; to discourse of whom from the appearances of things, does certainly belong to Natural Philosophy.

Edited by Modulous, : added Newton quote

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by jasonkthompson, posted 02-25-2010 5:06 PM jasonkthompson has not yet responded

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