Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 84 (8913 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 06-16-2019 5:22 PM
31 online now:
AZPaul3, dwise1, jar, JonF, PaulK, RAZD, subbie, Tangle, xongsmith (9 members, 22 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: Arnold Wolf
Post Volume:
Total: 853,866 Year: 8,902/19,786 Month: 1,324/2,119 Week: 84/576 Day: 84/50 Hour: 1/2


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Prev1
...
4567
8
9Next
Author Topic:   Dinosaurs and the reduced felt effect of gravity
redwolf
Member (Idle past 3954 days)
Posts: 185
From: alexandria va usa
Joined: 04-13-2004


Message 106 of 121 (102799)
04-26-2004 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by Dr Jack
04-26-2004 5:30 AM


Re: Red?
>Can we assume your continued silence means you have no answer?

Not really. I've basically said what I have to say about dinosaurs and gravity here. Whether or not YOU believe any of it is not something I lose a whole lot of sleep over; there are enough people who do.

Ganging up on somebody at 20-1 odds and then collecting urls for assinine statements which the other guy didn't bother to answer simply does not amount to a winning position or anything like that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Dr Jack, posted 04-26-2004 5:30 AM Dr Jack has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by RAZD, posted 04-26-2004 1:24 PM redwolf has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19868
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 107 of 121 (102813)
04-26-2004 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by redwolf
04-26-2004 12:26 PM


Re: Red?
this is called the "declare victory and run away" syndrome.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand

RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}


This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by redwolf, posted 04-26-2004 12:26 PM redwolf has not yet responded

  
catapam
Inactive Member


Message 108 of 121 (104914)
05-03-2004 10:05 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by Dr Jack
04-19-2004 11:44 AM


Re: When did it change? how old the rock?
Hi!
Im not a native English speaker.

Still, I can understand many English explanations like yours for example but I fail to understand redwolf explanations?

They are too complex or they are pure sophism hardly to be understood even they were in my own language?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Dr Jack, posted 04-19-2004 11:44 AM Dr Jack has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by jar, posted 05-03-2004 12:04 PM catapam has not yet responded
 Message 110 by redwolf, posted 05-05-2004 12:44 PM catapam has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30980
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 109 of 121 (104929)
05-03-2004 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by catapam
05-03-2004 10:05 AM


Re: When did it change? how old the rock?
You understand things just fine.

You ask great questions and language is simply not the problem. Those of us who have English as our first language suffer the same handicap as you.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by catapam, posted 05-03-2004 10:05 AM catapam has not yet responded

  
redwolf
Member (Idle past 3954 days)
Posts: 185
From: alexandria va usa
Joined: 04-13-2004


Message 110 of 121 (105546)
05-05-2004 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by catapam
05-03-2004 10:05 AM


Re: When did it change? how old the rock?
>Still, I can understand many English explanations like yours for example but I fail to understand redwolf explanations?

What specifically is it which is hard to understand?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by catapam, posted 05-03-2004 10:05 AM catapam has not yet responded

  
Dr Jack
Member (Idle past 268 days)
Posts: 3507
From: Leicester, England
Joined: 07-14-2003


Message 111 of 121 (124706)
07-15-2004 12:14 PM


In the What drove bird evolution? thread, Redwolf posted this (message #59)

"Redwolf" writes:

quote:

Did you forget we are the same people you argued this with before? That in this thread you attempted to defend the idea and failed (miserably)? Did you think we would forget?

All you're remembering is your own failure to deal with reality.

Like I say, you can do your own google search on dinosaurs and gravity, and see the results. I caught every sort of grief for this one at first but, basically, everybody who's ever come along since then and done the numbers has come to the same basic conclusion, at least as far as large dinosaurs being possible in present gravity.

I am no longer the only person on Earth claiming that sauropods would not be possible in present gravity.

My own original papers on the topic are at:

http://www.bearfabrique.org/Catastrophism/sauropods/dinosaurs.html

Snapshots from the Japanese documentary on the topic are at:

http://www.bearfabrique.org/Catastrophism/sauropods/japanscreens/

Since it's off-topic for that thread, I'll reply in this one.


Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Dr Jack, posted 07-15-2004 12:18 PM Dr Jack has not yet responded

  
Dr Jack
Member (Idle past 268 days)
Posts: 3507
From: Leicester, England
Joined: 07-14-2003


Message 112 of 121 (124708)
07-15-2004 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by Dr Jack
07-15-2004 12:14 PM


All you're remembering is your own failure to deal with reality.

No, I remember your failure to address any critism of the idea, and you're utter failure to demonstrate that is anything other than fantasy.

I caught every sort of grief for this one at first but, basically, everybody who's ever come along since then and done the numbers has come to the same basic conclusion, at least as far as large dinosaurs being possible in present gravity.

Now that's just nonsense. The numbers don't come down on your side, at all. We've already shown that in this thread. As for everyone coming down on your side - hardly - again search this thread, or do a spot of googling.

I am no longer the only person on Earth claiming that sauropods would not be possible in present gravity.

We never said you were. Trouble is, it doesn't make a difference if you're a lone crank of one of a little flock of cranks - you're still wrong.

My own original papers on the topic are at:

http://www.bearfabrique.org/Catastrophism/sauropods/dinosaurs.html

Snapshots from the Japanese documentary on the topic are at:

http://www.bearfabrique.org/Catastrophism/sauropods/japanscreens/

All of which we've already shredded in this thread. A shredding to which you've failed to present anything resembling a coherent rebuttal.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Dr Jack, posted 07-15-2004 12:14 PM Dr Jack has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by 1.61803, posted 07-16-2004 4:03 PM Dr Jack has not yet responded

  
1.61803
Member
Posts: 2838
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 113 of 121 (125055)
07-16-2004 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by Dr Jack
07-15-2004 12:18 PM


Bump.
Bump....
This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Dr Jack, posted 07-15-2004 12:18 PM Dr Jack has not yet responded

  
Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 3068 days)
Posts: 1161
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 114 of 121 (125379)
07-18-2004 2:35 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Sylas
04-16-2004 4:32 AM


Just discovered this article and will probably never be back to debate more on it, but I thought I'd throw in my two cents.

I was reading through some of the theorizing done on the implications of changing ZPE. This would cause changes in orbital energies of electrons in quantum jumps, which would cause among other things a VERY slight change in mass. This could explain what scientists observe as "star quakes" and also explain how supernovas occured so recently after creation (in the creationist timescale) It might also cause worldwide earthquakes, encourage earth's magnetic pole shifts, and perhaps change the force of gravity enough on earth to allow such large animals to survive better in the past.

I'm sure there will be many who wish to respond cynically to this; don't bother.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Sylas, posted 04-16-2004 4:32 AM Sylas has not yet responded

    
AdminAsgara
Administrator (Idle past 465 days)
Posts: 2073
From: The Universe
Joined: 10-11-2003


Message 115 of 121 (125504)
07-18-2004 6:37 PM


bump
Bump for the bird discussion OT posts.


AdminAsgara
Queen of the Universe


http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com
http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com
    
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 141 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 116 of 121 (125576)
07-19-2004 2:13 AM


here's a re-post of my off-topic post from bird evolution.

The crane is irrelevant because it is supported by cables anchored at a point substantially higher than the body of the crane itself, and no animal has a neck which is built like that.

i'd like to add this picture, which is the aforementioned barosaurus/allosaurus display at the american museum of natural history.

i'd like to point out that not only does this dinosaur hold the current record for longest neck, but this particular skeleton also holds the record for tallest free-standing dinosaur skeleton.

that's right, no cables.


  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 141 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 117 of 121 (125578)
07-19-2004 2:41 AM
Reply to: Message 72 by Coragyps
04-20-2004 10:22 AM


Re: When did it change? how old the rock?
Despite protestations at certain "creation science" museums to the contrary: they have a five-foot long "human femur" in scenic Crosbyton, Texas:

from the link.

quote:
This model (sculpted by Joe Taylor) of a giant human femur (leg bone) is a popular exhibit. The sculpture is mounted over a drawing to scale to show how large this person was.

a sculpture. i'm impressed!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Coragyps, posted 04-20-2004 10:22 AM Coragyps has not yet responded

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2091 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 118 of 121 (125639)
07-19-2004 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Sylas
04-16-2004 4:32 AM


all i have to say about this thread...

is "original thinker" the new word for idiodic, revisionist "scientist" along the lines of the "different time scale" yecs?

*sigh*

i could say something about ostriches not flying, but it's been said (see niche filling comment)

i could also say something about the ridiculous idea that sauropods couldn't possibly have held themselves up and the obviousness of above mentioned free-standing skeleton. but why bother.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Sylas, posted 04-16-2004 4:32 AM Sylas has not yet responded

  
redwolf
Member (Idle past 3954 days)
Posts: 185
From: alexandria va usa
Joined: 04-13-2004


Message 119 of 121 (127240)
07-24-2004 2:11 AM


Catastrophism books

This is going to be an interesting year for books dealing with catastrophist topics. One which is available now and another shortly to be available:

Dinosaurs, Gravity,
and Changing Scientific Paradigms

by Theodore Holden

Is it possible that a relatively simplistic finding from the realm
of the weightlifting sports might have overthrown part or all of the
theory of relativity? Could it be that Albert Einstein needed to be
spending more time in the gym and less time conducting "thought
experiments"? Is much of what we have called cosmology and physics
for the last hundred years built upon a foundation of sand?

Given Isaac Newton's and Albert Einstein's descriptions of gravity,
one should not anticipate reading about the USAF and its major
contractors such as Boeing conducting experiments in superconductor
technology with the stated purpose of a local reduction in gravity,
or having a standard sort of government acronym GRASP (Gravity
Reduction and Advanced Space Propulsion) for such a project.
Likewise, given the standard descriptions of gravity, there should be
no way in which to believe that a large-scale change in gravity
near the Earth's surface might have taken place within the last
10,000 years; nonethless, it is easy to demonstrate that it has.

Topics covered include the question of a change in gravity having
brought about the end of the large dinosaurs as well as the large
ice-age animals which died out around 12,000 years ago by standard
dating schemes, the actual antiquity of the dinosaur age, the nature
of gravity itself, relativity, the theories of Ralph Sansbury dealing
with gravity and light, the question of the role of static electrical
phenomena in antique religious practices, and the question of human
language prior to the flood described in the bible and in other
antique literature.

Available as POD (Print on Demand) paperback and as an ebook at:

http://www.bearfabrique.org/books/books.html

Snapshots from the recent Japanese documentary on the topic of gravity changes:

http://www.bearfabrique.org/Catastrophism/sauropods/japanscreens/index.htm

THUNDERBOLTS OF THE GODS

THUNDERBOLTS OF THE GODS, by David Talbott and Wallace Thornhill, is the
first in a series of volumes presenting a convergence of ancient
testimony, laboratory experiments, and space age discovery. The authors
contend that electrical phenomena, associated with global catastrophe on
Earth, have shaped the evolution of our solar system. But their tale is
not set in geologically remote times. They claim that earthshaking
events occurred so RECENTLY as to have profoundly affected the human
species. The cross-cultural patterns of the great civilizations are a
testament to events the theoretical sciences have yet to recognize.

At the core of this reconstruction is the unique behavior of plasma, the
newly-discovered sea of charged particles through which all celestial
bodies move. All bodies in space except for rocky planets, moons and
other debris (meteorites, asteroids, comets), are constituted of plasma,
they should interact according to the observed laws of plasma behavior.
>From these discoveries, a new approach to the understanding of the
physical universe is opening up. This approach, called plasma cosmology,
is not entirely new -- its foundations span more than a hundred years of
plasma research, including that of Nobel Laureate Hanns Alfvn.

Plasma cosmology is the most persuasive challenge to popular theories in
astronomy today, and the authors of THUNDERBOLTS see this new
perspective as a bridge between the ancient and modern worlds. The
authors claim that globally recurring symbols and pictographs of the sky
are, in fact, intense electric discharges, scaled-up versions of
phenomena seen in plasma laboratory experiments. On earth, human beings
carved millions of unexplained pictures on stone, and the laboratory
experiments make clear that these artists were copying spectacular
electrical phenomena in the heavens. These discharges appeared as
gigantic, metamorphosing formations in the sky ? the shape-shifting
monsters, gods, goddesses, and heroes of the myth-making epoch.

For more than three decades, Talbott and Thornhill have each been major
contributors to the field of modern catastrophism. Talbott was publisher
of Pense magazine's "Immanuel Velikovsky Reconsidered" series in the
early seventies, provoking a surge of international interest in the
Velikovsky question. He then offered his own reconstruction of the past
in THE SATURN MYTH (Doubleday, 1980). His hypothesis was later depicted
in the 90-minute documentary, "Remembering the End of the World."

Thornhill has delivered numerous presentations on the "electric
universe" at symposia and workshops in the United States and abroad. His
CD, "The Electric Universe," was published in 1998, and his website at
www.holoscience.com, with its challenge to mainstream science, continues
to be popular.

As their first volume is being completed, the authors intend to publish
a series of full color monographs, representing material to be included
in the first three volumes. Each monograph will be accompanied by a
30-minute DVD designed to give a broad overview of the subject.

The Introduction and Chapter One of the first color monograph can be
viewed at--

http://www.thunderbolts.info

Both books involve a conception of the history of our planet which is too short to allow for
any known version of a theory of evolution.


Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by AdminAsgara, posted 07-24-2004 2:17 AM redwolf has responded

  
AdminAsgara
Administrator (Idle past 465 days)
Posts: 2073
From: The Universe
Joined: 10-11-2003


Message 120 of 121 (127241)
07-24-2004 2:17 AM
Reply to: Message 119 by redwolf
07-24-2004 2:11 AM


Re: Catastrophism books
Let's please be clear, for any new-comers here...Redwolf IS Ted Holden.


AdminAsgara
Queen of the Universe


http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com
http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com
This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by redwolf, posted 07-24-2004 2:11 AM redwolf has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by redwolf, posted 07-24-2004 3:17 AM AdminAsgara has not yet responded

    
Prev1
...
4567
8
9Next
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019