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Author Topic:   Key points of Evolution
Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 117 of 356 (464984)
05-01-2008 5:44 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by Wumpini
05-01-2008 5:03 PM


Re: Thanks for the input
was wondering though if some or many of them may believe that there were forces beyond evolution at work sometime in the past. You know for things like the creation of the first living organism, or complex organs, or the human brain, or the soul. What I was considering is whether these two beliefs are really mutually exclusive. You may say, "why believe God did anything if evolution is sufficient to explain the diversity?" It seems that if you are going to believe in God then He ought to be doing something. You know like creating the universe, and life.
Its worth bearing in mind that they may well believe these things but not consider them to be scientifically viable hypotheses. It surely isn't a requisite of faith that its tenets are all able to be substantiated with scientific evidence, even for a scientist.
TTFN,
WK

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Wumpini, posted 05-01-2008 5:03 PM Wumpini has not replied

Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 187 of 356 (465677)
05-09-2008 5:47 AM
Reply to: Message 186 by Wumpini
05-09-2008 5:27 AM


Re: Objective vs Subjective Reality
What evidence do they have that contradicts what you believe?
What makes you assume they have evidence? Have you never encountered people who hold on to beliefs in spite of evidence to the contrary? They may be scientists who work in fields totally unrelated to evolution and therefore have had no exposure to the evidence.
quote:
It is believed that when patients ask their physicians for antibiotics, even for illnesses for which antibiotics are ineffective, many physicians prescribe them.
My question would be, Why?
For an easy life? As a form of placebo?
We have many eyewitnesses to this event (objective evidence).
Really, are you sure thats what you mean? At best we might have some nth generational copies of old written down eyewitness accounts, I doubt that any actual eyewitnesses to that event are going to be in much of a state to testify. And what evidence do you have that these 'accounts' are objective?
TTFN,
WK

This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by Wumpini, posted 05-09-2008 5:27 AM Wumpini has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 189 by Wumpini, posted 05-09-2008 6:27 AM Wounded King has replied

Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 191 of 356 (465682)
05-09-2008 7:06 AM
Reply to: Message 189 by Wumpini
05-09-2008 6:27 AM


Re: Eyewitness Testimony
They are scientists, and probably educated people, therefore they would seem to need evidence to be convinced of anything.
Thats a pretty huge assumption, for my own part I would assume most of that 40% probably believed in god before they became scientists, so they would already be convinced of his existence.
It is also possible when they encounter evidence to the contrary that it is discounted because they don't want to be seen as disregarding something that is accepted by the scientific community.
Thats a pretty huge leap there, you just magically poofed some contrary evidence out of nowhere. Do you have anything to suggest that such evidence actually exists?
So, are you saying that we should deny everything that ever happened in the history of the world if there are not eyewitnesses alive today to testify to the event?
No, I don't think you will find I did say that. Although it is worth noting that in many more recent historical events we still have original documents to draw on, what original eyewitness documents are there for the resurrection? The earliest written accounts are apparently from Paul's letters, and Paul surely wasn't an eyewitness, except of his own Damascene experience.
Their eyewitness testimony lives on today, just as the eyewitness testimony of the assasination of the American president Abraham Lincoln lives on today
We could find many examples of original newspapers reporting Lincoln's assassination the day after it occurred and original letters from the doctor who attended him. Do you really not see any difference in the standards of evidence available?
TTFN,
WK

This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by Wumpini, posted 05-09-2008 6:27 AM Wumpini has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by Wumpini, posted 05-09-2008 7:43 AM Wounded King has replied

Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 195 of 356 (465687)
05-09-2008 7:56 AM
Reply to: Message 194 by Wumpini
05-09-2008 7:43 AM


Re: Contrary Evidence
Without any evidence how can you assume that most believed in God before they became scientists?
As I said it was an assumption, but I would imagine the majority of the respondents were American, America is a predominantly Christian country and children are often brought up in their parents religion. Therefore I don't consider the assumption that most of the respondents might have been brought up to believe in god to be that large.
You are the one that brought up contrary evidence.
No I wasn't.
I am sure that there are many scientists who believe there is contrary evidence. At least the 5% who believe in creation in the last 10,000 years must base that belief on something.
So you keep saying, but there still isn't any evidence for it being scientific evidence that contradicts modern evolutionary theory. Why can't it be based on a pre-existing belief in god and the literal truth of the bible? We know that exists in a lot of people.
I have only began to study some of this evidence
so what is the contrary evidence you are studying?
but we don't need to act like it does not exist.
Why shouldn't we when you give us no reason to believe it does exist?
TTFN,
WK

This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by Wumpini, posted 05-09-2008 7:43 AM Wumpini has not replied

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