Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 76 (9011 total)
59 online now:
PaulK, Tangle, vimesey (3 members, 56 visitors)
Newest Member: Burrawang
Upcoming Birthdays: Coragyps
Post Volume: Total: 881,652 Year: 13,400/23,288 Month: 330/795 Week: 31/95 Day: 0/12 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Does Evolution Require Spreading The Word?
mjfloresta
Member (Idle past 4655 days)
Posts: 277
From: N.Y.
Joined: 06-08-2006


Message 97 of 135 (339176)
08-11-2006 11:18 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by jar
08-11-2006 9:21 AM


Re: It looks like it is needed in the US
How ironic is it that - in regard to the EVC debate (especially on this site) - religion is decried as the absolute worst form of evidence especially when faced with the objectivity of Science, and yet to claim the opposite when it is suitable to the argument...

Consider the above claim:

What an absolutely classic example of just how silly the ID and Biblical Creationism really is cannot be be faked. Only someone like Bruce Chapman could even imagine that is support.

Contrast their list of 640 scientists with the over 10,000 US Christian Clergy who signed the Clergy Letter supporting teaching the Theory of Evolution and decrying teaching of ID or Biblical Creationism.

What does it matter what some uneducated clergy are willing to concede in the face of intense public pressure from academia, the media, and the public at large - especially in the face of declining church attendance. How does their opinion of science matter anymore than the supposed 60 percent of laypeople in this country who don't believe in strict darwinian evolution? Furthermore, 10000 clergy men out of approximately 400 thousand churches in the country means that these signees constitue an extreme minority (2.5%!) of nationwide clergy. If the opinions of 640 scientists are so vastly discounted by the counter-voice of their majority opposition, why isn't the same true with the clergy?

Instead of ridiculing the growing number of skeptical scientists (PhDs, I might add) who are brave enough to voice their doubt of the current theories, we might be more willing hold off on our ridicule long enough to consider if there might be someting there...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by jar, posted 08-11-2006 9:21 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by jar, posted 08-11-2006 11:39 AM mjfloresta has responded

  
mjfloresta
Member (Idle past 4655 days)
Posts: 277
From: N.Y.
Joined: 06-08-2006


Message 99 of 135 (339184)
08-11-2006 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by jar
08-11-2006 11:39 AM


Re: It looks like it is needed in the US
It's amazing how the context of what one writes is so easily ignored...

Obviously I'm talking about the their lack of SCIENCE credentials (i'm sure they are quite inundated with Doctor's of Theology and Master's of Divinity)

So the matter still remains that we have 10,000 clergy with Master's of Divinity and Doctor's of Theology who know nothing about science (officially of course, not knowing what their personal interests may be) being heralded as the clincher for Evolution vs Creation

AND we have 10,000 clergy with those Masters and Doctorates Versus another 350,000 + who haven't signed the document - the vast majority of which also possess those lovely Masters and Doctorates...

So again I ask, what does it matter what an extremely minor fraction of uneducated (scientifically, of course) clergy believe?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by jar, posted 08-11-2006 11:39 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by jar, posted 08-11-2006 12:10 PM mjfloresta has responded
 Message 114 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-11-2006 6:15 PM mjfloresta has not yet responded

  
mjfloresta
Member (Idle past 4655 days)
Posts: 277
From: N.Y.
Joined: 06-08-2006


Message 101 of 135 (339189)
08-11-2006 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by jar
08-11-2006 12:10 PM


Re: It looks like it is needed in the US
OK - So we have 640 scientists who doubt evolution; but they are ignored because tens of thousands of scientists feel otherwise;

We have 10,000 clergy who have a specific theology about Life Origins; but they are heralded as authoritative despite the counter-position held by 350,000 thousand clergy..

See the hypocrisy?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by jar, posted 08-11-2006 12:10 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by jar, posted 08-11-2006 12:36 PM mjfloresta has responded
 Message 115 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-11-2006 6:19 PM mjfloresta has not yet responded

  
mjfloresta
Member (Idle past 4655 days)
Posts: 277
From: N.Y.
Joined: 06-08-2006


Message 103 of 135 (339203)
08-11-2006 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by jar
08-11-2006 12:36 PM


Re: It looks like it is needed in the US
You can't try one more time when you keep changing your approach;

Are you using the the clergy list to support a scientific view? (ToE)

Are you using the clergy list to support a theological view? (that evolution is compatible with Christianity?)

IF the first, then I have pointed out that: The clergy are unqualified as a whole to make any contribution to science.

IF the second, then I have shown that: The 10,000 clergy on your list are representative of a very minority position within Christianity.

The reason we need to spread the word about what the Theory of Evolution actually says is that there may still be hundreds of thousands of clergy who simply are ignorant of what it says and what it means theologically.

What is means theologically? Now science is going to instruct religion? The ToE is going to tell these 'ignorant' clergy what the ToE means THEOLOGICALLY? How presumptuous...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by jar, posted 08-11-2006 12:36 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by jar, posted 08-11-2006 1:16 PM mjfloresta has responded
 Message 105 by ringo, posted 08-11-2006 1:24 PM mjfloresta has not yet responded

  
mjfloresta
Member (Idle past 4655 days)
Posts: 277
From: N.Y.
Joined: 06-08-2006


Message 106 of 135 (339211)
08-11-2006 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by jar
08-11-2006 1:16 PM


Re: It looks like it is needed in the US
No, hopefully though the ignorant clergy can learn from reality. Hopefully the ignorant clergy can also learn from the educated minority of other clergy theologically.

Again the presumptuousness is amazing...the minority clergy that signed the list are educated? while the rest of the clergy who didn't sign the list are ignorant? So by definition, clergy who accept ToE are "educated" while those who don't are 'ignorant'??!!

And again, you're mixing your terms...making it sound like proper theology is only held by the "educated" clergy; who are the educated clergy? those that accept ToE of course!!

I forgot you were elected high priest/spokesman of Christian theology


This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by jar, posted 08-11-2006 1:16 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by jar, posted 08-11-2006 1:41 PM mjfloresta has responded

  
mjfloresta
Member (Idle past 4655 days)
Posts: 277
From: N.Y.
Joined: 06-08-2006


Message 108 of 135 (339236)
08-11-2006 2:21 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by jar
08-11-2006 1:41 PM


Re: It looks like it is needed in the US
oh no i didn't; show me where I characterized clergy that support ID or Biblical Creationism as ignorant...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by jar, posted 08-11-2006 1:41 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by jar, posted 08-11-2006 2:33 PM mjfloresta has responded

  
mjfloresta
Member (Idle past 4655 days)
Posts: 277
From: N.Y.
Joined: 06-08-2006


Message 110 of 135 (339253)
08-11-2006 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by jar
08-11-2006 2:33 PM


Re: Why we need to spread the word.
Well, as an 'ignorant' Christian I consider myself to be as educated both theologically and scientifically as most people...and there is no logical discrepancy between my belief in God and my skepticism of ToE, or my belief in a world-wide flood...

On the other hand, you may wish to consider how well your viewpoint harmonizes with God's when we have his own Word that speaks against ToE...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by jar, posted 08-11-2006 2:33 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by jar, posted 08-11-2006 3:06 PM mjfloresta has responded

  
mjfloresta
Member (Idle past 4655 days)
Posts: 277
From: N.Y.
Joined: 06-08-2006


Message 112 of 135 (339268)
08-11-2006 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by jar
08-11-2006 3:06 PM


Re: Why we need to spread the word.
You talk about the direct evidence God has left us (science), yet you ignore the direct communication he has left us (his word)..

You say you trust the bible to be an accurate guide to theology yet you doubt its accuracy...

It's like people saying that Jesus was a good man but not God...that's impossible; he's either God - as he said he was, or he was a liar, and a pretender, claiming to be the deity of the universe when he was not...

Similarly, when it comes to God's testimony about himself and his deeds, you can either believe him at his word - or not; But don't claim to accept his word and then not believe anything he says...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by jar, posted 08-11-2006 3:06 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by jar, posted 08-11-2006 3:24 PM mjfloresta has not yet responded

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2020