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Author Topic:   evolution vs. creationism: evolution wins
TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 310 (87540)
02-19-2004 2:53 PM


quote:
To prove creation you have to prove...that evolution doesn't happen.
--?
quote:
Most creationists also believe in a young earth which is one of the easiest ideas to shoot full of holes.
--Well it certainly and inevitably carries copious potential falsification.
quote:
Evolution is a theory based on the evidence at hand (fossil record, genetic data, age of earth/universe etc). The basic idea is evolution is science, its tested, it stands up to the questions, and its able to adapt to take new input to expand our knowledge. Creation is a theory that is declared by religion, then spends all its time desperately trying to defend itself.
As the famous quote goes "Evolution takes the evidence and makes a conclusion. Creation makes a conclusion then looks for evidence".
--Scientific analysis of a potentially young earth does not have to follow such a flawed scientific methodology. However, this does seem to be the case with most 'research' performed by scientists who advocate a young earth, and most unfortunatelly so. To me it is clear that the current understanding of science, as is manifested in the scientific literature argues well against a young earth by plenty of methods. While it seems more implausible every day in my opinion, if those scientists interested in "young earth research" were to take a more objective approach, without prejudicial requisites for 'scientific' conclusions, they could probably get somewhere.
Nevertheless, I recommend the original author of this thread to not make any definite statements in his presentation. But of course if his only impetus to delve into this issue is to 'convince the audience', he could always get a copy of those Dr. Dino tapes and switch things around a bit. Ultimately, you probably won't know what you are talking about, but have fun trying.
Cheers,
-Chris Grose
[This message has been edited by TrueCreation, 02-20-2004]

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by TrueCreation, posted 02-20-2004 5:20 PM TrueCreation has not replied
 Message 22 by Phat, posted 02-21-2004 1:57 PM TrueCreation has not replied
 Message 33 by Harlequin, posted 02-22-2004 2:47 PM TrueCreation has replied

TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 310 (87790)
02-20-2004 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by TrueCreation
02-19-2004 2:53 PM


^ ????? What? Ok I'm confused.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by TrueCreation, posted 02-19-2004 2:53 PM TrueCreation has not replied

TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 43 of 310 (89921)
03-02-2004 9:57 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Harlequin
02-22-2004 2:47 PM


quote:
Absolutely, YEC/Flood "geology" is extremely falsifiable. The problem is that YECs utterly ignore the falsification.
--Not all of them. I would say that I am one of those exceptions, but then again I am not a YEC myself.
quote:
AiG/ICR/CRS style creationism was proven false two centuries ago.
--Well there is hardly a substantial consensus in the creationist scientific community, so ultimately you might be right there. Nevertheless, 200 year old "flood geology" was disproven by 200 year old science. IMO newer proposals carry some potential, such as Baumgardner's geophysical proposals regarding catastrophic plate tectonics and runaway subduction.
quote:
This is why the "professional" YECs tend to be dishonest, extremely incompetent, extremely dogmatic, or some combination.
--Some of them tend to migrate toward some of these unfortunate characteristics. I think Baumgardner is one of the only ones I could disclude from that list with some confidence.
quote:
The honest, knowledgeable ones stop being YECs.
--Some. And while I have much to learn, it is possible that this is due to some unfortunate subjective characteristic inherent to humanity. For example, an intelligent YEC scientist might drift away from YECism because they may find abundant issues of misconduct in other YEC scientists. Or a knowledgable YEC scientist might drift away from YECism because they find it easier to just let go of the poorly researched and poorly advanced status of young earth issues, just to name a few. Others may just be daunted by the abundance of inconsistencies inevitably implied by a catastrophic view of earth history.
Cheers,
-Chris Grose

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Harlequin, posted 02-22-2004 2:47 PM Harlequin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Sylas, posted 03-02-2004 11:15 PM TrueCreation has replied

TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 52 of 310 (90968)
03-07-2004 3:41 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Sylas
03-02-2004 11:15 PM


quote:
In any case, those interested can see Baumgardner's own web site for themselves.
Is it really Baumgardner's site? I think I have read some of the material and if it is, he refers to himself in the third person constantly. Here is some information on the globalflood.com domain name:
SuperWHOIS Version 2.0.2.
Copyright (c) 2000-2003 Archetopia, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
whois: globalflood.com
Authoritative whois at whois.joker.com
domain: globalflood.com
status: production
owner: Dennis Flood
email: floodmail@get2net.dk
address: Laessoeesgade 23, 5tv
city: Koebenhavn N
state: DK
postal-code: 2200
country: DK
admin-c: dns@domainhost.dk#1
tech-c: dns@domainhost.dk#1
billing-c: dns@domainhost.dk#1
nserver: ns1.cserver.dk
nserver: ns2.cserver.dk
registrar: JORE-1
created: 2000-12-12 05:25:52 UTC core
modified: 2003-12-07 17:48:28 UTC JORE-1
expires: 2004-12-12 05:25:52 UTC
source: joker.com
db-updated: 2004-03-06 01:31:46 UTC
Cheers,
-Chris Grose

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Sylas, posted 03-02-2004 11:15 PM Sylas has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by PaulK, posted 03-07-2004 3:58 PM TrueCreation has not replied
 Message 54 by Sylas, posted 03-07-2004 8:38 PM TrueCreation has not replied

TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 55 of 310 (91186)
03-08-2004 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by wj
03-02-2004 11:56 PM


quote:
One would have to wonder why Baumgardner even bothers to develop a model. Simply declare the flood, plate tectonics and associated phenomena a miracle and be done with it. Why try to whittle it down to a small miracle when a large miracle is just as credible?
--Because I'm sure Baumgardner is aware that there is room for advancement. I find his geophysical work on CPT quite good.
Cheers,
-Chris Grose

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by wj, posted 03-02-2004 11:56 PM wj has not replied

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