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Author Topic:   Alas, poor Ohio .... EvC related news
bob_gray
Member (Idle past 5013 days)
Posts: 243
From: Virginia
Joined: 05-03-2004


Message 121 of 179 (115896)
06-16-2004 10:22 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by DarkStar
06-16-2004 9:15 PM


Re: Macro vs Micro
I realize that crashfrog doesn't need me to argue on his behalf but I think you have taken what appears to be a "slip of the keyboard" and tried to make the poster appear ignorant. And regardless of what someone might mistype here on the forum it doesn't change the truth about evolution. That being said I will address the "typo".
crashfrog writes:
Evolution is a result, not a process. When you let the mechanisms of evolution run for a short time, you get what might be called "micro-evolution." When you let them run for a long time, you get what might be called "macro-evolution."
Since he follows up the first sentence by talking about the mechanism of evolution I think it is clear that the first sentence should have read, Evolution is a process, not a result. Every successful organism is in some sense the end of an evolutionary process, much like every organism is a transitional form. Evolution doesn’t end until life ends; it is a continuous process.
darkstar writes:
Maybe those Christians are right, it may be easier to just say "god did it" than to figure out how the end of action has an ongoing action leading to an end of action ad infinitum. Talk about circular. Damn! I'm getting all discombobulated just thinking about that one.
I am sorry that you are discombobulated; I hope it is not too uncomfortable. I’m sure you can see someone about that. If you can’t sort this out on your own you may indeed find yourself more comfortable in the god did it camp.
On a side note your posts are difficult to read. The color scheme is awful.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by DarkStar, posted 06-16-2004 9:15 PM DarkStar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by crashfrog, posted 06-16-2004 11:13 PM bob_gray has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 122 of 179 (115907)
06-16-2004 11:09 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by DarkStar
06-16-2004 9:15 PM


Evolution=result, which signifies an end of action.
Right, in that the present is the end of all actions in the past.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by DarkStar, posted 06-16-2004 9:15 PM DarkStar has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 123 of 179 (115910)
06-16-2004 11:13 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by bob_gray
06-16-2004 10:22 PM


I think it is clear that the first sentence should have read, Evolution is a process, not a result.
No, I meant what I wrote. Evolution is the result of ongoing processes.
But it's idiotic to suggest that you can't get results until the very end of the process.
Evolution doesn’t end until life ends; it is a continuous process.
The mechanisms of evolution don't end until life does; evolution is the continuing result of those processes.
Look, it's like saying "the process of macro-walking". There's no such thing. It's macro-walking when you walk to the next county, and micro-walking when you walk to the store.
Walking to the next county and walking to the store are results; they're where you wind up. It's the process of walking that takes you there, and it's the same process in each case. The only difference is the results of the process.
On a side note your posts are difficult to read. The color scheme is awful.
Yeah, DS, what the fuck? Do you have a deep emnity towards readability or something? Your new style is a marginal improvement, but what's wrong with the original color scheme?
This message has been edited by crashfrog, 06-16-2004 10:20 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by bob_gray, posted 06-16-2004 10:22 PM bob_gray has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by bob_gray, posted 06-16-2004 11:39 PM crashfrog has replied

  
bob_gray
Member (Idle past 5013 days)
Posts: 243
From: Virginia
Joined: 05-03-2004


Message 124 of 179 (115917)
06-16-2004 11:39 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by crashfrog
06-16-2004 11:13 PM


Mea culpa
Since you wrote what you meant I apologize for second guessing you, particularly since it appears my explanation was lacking in clarity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by crashfrog, posted 06-16-2004 11:13 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by crashfrog, posted 06-17-2004 1:44 AM bob_gray has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 125 of 179 (115950)
06-17-2004 1:44 AM
Reply to: Message 124 by bob_gray
06-16-2004 11:39 PM


Since you wrote what you meant I apologize for second guessing you, particularly since it appears my explanation was lacking in clarity.
No apologies necessary. I was hardly clear myself, and I'm sorry for posting with the tone I did - I was in a hurry. It wasn't my intent to be so brusque.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by bob_gray, posted 06-16-2004 11:39 PM bob_gray has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by DarkStar, posted 06-17-2004 10:44 PM crashfrog has replied

  
DarkStar
Inactive Member


Message 126 of 179 (116240)
06-17-2004 10:44 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by crashfrog
06-17-2004 1:44 AM


Frozen in Thought?
Prior Lake, huh?
Are you sure you're not from Frostbite Falls?
Cheers

BREATHE DEEP THE GATHERING GLOOM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by crashfrog, posted 06-17-2004 1:44 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by crashfrog, posted 06-18-2004 1:38 AM DarkStar has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 127 of 179 (116270)
06-18-2004 1:38 AM
Reply to: Message 126 by DarkStar
06-17-2004 10:44 PM


Re: Frozen in Thought?
"Dark Star", huh? You sure you didn't mean to put "Brown Starfish"?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by DarkStar, posted 06-17-2004 10:44 PM DarkStar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by custard, posted 06-18-2004 1:45 AM crashfrog has replied

  
custard
Inactive Member


Message 128 of 179 (116272)
06-18-2004 1:45 AM
Reply to: Message 127 by crashfrog
06-18-2004 1:38 AM


Re: Frozen in Thought?
Isn't that in a Limp Bizkit song? Wait, that's chocolate starfish. He'd probably have to change his avatar.
This message has been edited by custard, 06-18-2004 12:46 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by crashfrog, posted 06-18-2004 1:38 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by crashfrog, posted 06-18-2004 1:59 AM custard has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 129 of 179 (116274)
06-18-2004 1:59 AM
Reply to: Message 128 by custard
06-18-2004 1:45 AM


Wait, that's chocolate starfish.
No, this is a chocolate starfish.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by custard, posted 06-18-2004 1:45 AM custard has not replied

  
DarkStar
Inactive Member


Message 130 of 179 (116572)
06-18-2004 8:04 PM


Message to Crustade & Frogga.....
While your jocular nature may not be as seasoned as mine, I am genuinely confident in your abilities to convoke a more superior degree of facetiousness than what I have observed thus far.
Jocose Cheers

BREATHE DEEP THE GATHERING GLOOM

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by crashfrog, posted 06-19-2004 12:08 AM DarkStar has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 131 of 179 (116608)
06-19-2004 12:08 AM
Reply to: Message 130 by DarkStar
06-18-2004 8:04 PM


I am genuinely confident in your abilities to convoke a more superior degree of facetiousness than what I have observed thus far.
I'm glad to know you have such faith in me. Unfortunately I'm not so optimistic about your ability to actually address rebuttals to your arguments.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by DarkStar, posted 06-18-2004 8:04 PM DarkStar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by DarkStar, posted 06-19-2004 9:59 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 132 of 179 (116750)
06-19-2004 9:53 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by DarkStar
06-15-2004 4:35 PM


Re: Evolving Views
quote:
I have merely stated in the past that I acknowledge patterns, designs, and yes, even intelligent designs in the aspects of nature that I am able to personally observe.
Specifics, DS.
I'd like to know specifics.
What are the specific patterns and designs that you have personally observed in nature that have lead you to conclude that they have been intelligently designed?
In particular, I am interested in how you know that a natural mechanism or source for these patterns and designs does not exist now, or could not possibly be found in the future.
This message has been edited by schrafinator, 06-19-2004 08:54 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by DarkStar, posted 06-15-2004 4:35 PM DarkStar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by DarkStar, posted 06-19-2004 11:16 PM nator has replied

  
DarkStar
Inactive Member


Message 133 of 179 (116754)
06-19-2004 9:59 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by crashfrog
06-19-2004 12:08 AM


crashfrog writes:
I'm glad to know you have such faith in me. Unfortunately I'm not so optimistic about your ability to actually address rebuttals to your arguments.
DarkStar replies:
See, I knew you had it in you.
Now that was funny!
Good Job!
Cheers

BREATHE DEEP THE GATHERING GLOOM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by crashfrog, posted 06-19-2004 12:08 AM crashfrog has not replied

  
DarkStar
Inactive Member


Message 134 of 179 (116775)
06-19-2004 11:16 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by nator
06-19-2004 9:53 PM


Re: Evolving Views
schrafinator writes:
Specifics, DS. I'd like to know specifics.
Please refer to message 72 at http://EvC Forum: How does Complexity demonstrate Design and get back to me with any questions. Thanks
Cheers

BREATHE DEEP THE GATHERING GLOOM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by nator, posted 06-19-2004 9:53 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by nator, posted 06-20-2004 2:18 PM DarkStar has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 135 of 179 (116881)
06-20-2004 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by DarkStar
06-19-2004 11:16 PM


Re: Evolving Views
Well, the only relevant specific example you gave was that of the honeybee's construction of the honeycomb.
The automobile design is not relevant to evolution because they do not reproduce, and we also know who designed the first automobile, and probably all subsequent automobiles since then.
Anyway, the post you sent me to did not answer my second question.
Let us assume, since I am too lazy right now to do your research for you, that the honeycomb's construction does not currently have a naturalistic explanation.
Let us also say that humans are not smart enough to ever understand how it is that honeybees can make honeycombs.
Why do you conclude that our lack of knowledge about how honeybees make honeycomb means that an Intelligent Designer must have done it?
How do you tell the difference between an Intelligently Designed system and a natural one we don't understand now, or may never understand?
Is the honeybee's construction of honeycomb the only specific example of what you see as ID?
Surely you didn't give up on science just because of a single, solitary gap in our knowledge, did you?
This message has been edited by schrafinator, 06-20-2004 01:20 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by DarkStar, posted 06-19-2004 11:16 PM DarkStar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by DarkStar, posted 06-21-2004 2:07 AM nator has replied

  
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