Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 66 (9078 total)
770 online now:
PaulK, Phat, Stile, Tanypteryx, Theodoric (5 members, 765 visitors)
Newest Member: harveyspecter
Post Volume: Total: 895,092 Year: 6,204/6,534 Month: 397/650 Week: 167/278 Day: 7/28 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Why not teach problems with ToE in school?
coffee_addict
Member
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 13 of 136 (125573)
07-19-2004 2:02 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by tubi417
07-18-2004 3:02 AM


Re: Problems of evolution taught in school
The so-called "problems" with the theory of evolution are just too technical for high school students to grasp.

Here is an analogy. We all know the quadratic formula, right? For me, I had to learn it in 6th grade in pre-algebra... I think. Anyway, I might want to complain that they never taught us how to derive the quadratic formula. Why the heck didn't they teach us on how to derive the quadratic formula?

The answer is simple. I couldn't have possibly comprehend the math that was involved at the time, even though it's the easiest thing for me now. I think it was in algebra class that I paid attention to the formula and actually derived it on my own.

The theory of evolution is a very complex theory that requires a person years of schooling and research to understand the technical parts of it. In other words, what you learned in high school ain't nothing compared to the whole picture.

tubi417 writes:

Some of the problems we've learned were about how mutations are generally harmful and that they never been known to add new information.


You either had a creationist disguised as a teacher for a bio teacher or you had one of the dumbest bio teachers in high school.

For one thing, most mutations observed are neutral.

We learned about how it would be impossible for life to really come from nothing.

But there WAS something on early earth.

Refer to Message 7 for a grossly simplified explanation of the current abiogenesis theory.

We also learned about how there are problems with the apes that are supposed to link them with humans, although I don't remember what exactly we went over, I will try to find my notes.

Ok...

We weren't taught about how god or the Bible could explain anything because we can't deal with religion in school, although I feel evoltuion is pretty much religion.

Here is a suggestion, go on to college and take at least 2 bio classes before you make such a judgement. Just remember to get higher grades than C's.

I don't understand why many of you are against having the problems of evolution taught.

I personally have no problem with such a curriculum in the schools. However, you need to learn some basic things about the theory of evolution first before you can understand the so-called "problems." This is an honest truth. There is no way you can possibly understand the problems that scientists run into in this field. This is the reason why creationists often resort to strawman to argue against the theory. Most creationists can't even grasp the basics of the scientific method.

I think its really good that were taught that this theory isn't solid fact, like so many people make it out to be.

Well, evolution is both fact and theory. Ned and Sylas convinced me about that a while ago.

So whats the problem with learning both sides to the argument????

The problem is are you willing to stay in school for another 5 years just to learn enough facts about the theory of evolution to understand the "problems"? Your choice.


The Laminator


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by tubi417, posted 07-18-2004 3:02 AM tubi417 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by tubi417, posted 07-20-2004 12:21 AM coffee_addict has replied
 Message 46 by Jasonb, posted 07-22-2004 12:10 PM coffee_addict has not replied

coffee_addict
Member
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 27 of 136 (125888)
07-20-2004 5:25 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by tubi417
07-20-2004 12:21 AM


Re: Problems of evolution taught in school
tubi417 writes:

You didn't expain in that message that besides creating only 2% organic molecules, he also created 85% tar and 13% carboxlic acid. This would have killed any life that could have formed, although this experiment really does not prove at all that life was formed like that.


Ok, since I see that you have trouble grasping the purposes behind experiments, let me make it simple. The Miller experiment did not "prove" anything about abiogenesis. It confirmed that organic molecules could have arisen through natural processes in primordial conditions.

Another thing, have you ever heard of the domain archaea?

If we do some how create life in a laboratory, although I really doubt that that will happen, it would only prove that intelligent life could create life.

You really don't have a clue what scientific experiments of this nature is all about, do you?

Scientific experiments in laboratories are performed using natural processes to explore the possible results of naturally occuring phenomina. If you don't get that, then I give up.

Evolution explains the origins of everything just like any religion such as christianity, or hinduism.

Somehow, we haven't been able to make you understand that abiogenesis and evolution are 2 different theories. They are 2 different fields of science. It's either all of us here have really bad writing skills or you have a really poor reading comprehension skill. However, considering the A that I got for my 16 page paper last semester, I doubt it was me that did not make the point clear enough.

Another thing you have to understand is that the theory of evolution and the theory of abiogenesis are objective in nature. Christian and Hindu creation myths are subjective in nature.


The Laminator


This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by tubi417, posted 07-20-2004 12:21 AM tubi417 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by tubi417, posted 07-20-2004 1:20 PM coffee_addict has replied

coffee_addict
Member
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 32 of 136 (125938)
07-20-2004 1:34 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by tubi417
07-20-2004 1:20 PM


Re: Problems of evolution taught in school
tubi417 writes:

abiogenesis and evolution are often put together


Um, no. Only people like you tend to think that they are together. For us science people, they're 2 completely different subjects.


The Laminator


This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by tubi417, posted 07-20-2004 1:20 PM tubi417 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by NosyNed, posted 07-20-2004 3:53 PM coffee_addict has replied

coffee_addict
Member
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 36 of 136 (126008)
07-20-2004 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by NosyNed
07-20-2004 3:53 PM


Re: abiogenesis and evolution
Nosyned writes:

However, when these subjects are being rushed over in a very few weeks of high school science they sure look like they are together.


Which brings me full circle back to what I said millions of years ago... more like a few months ago. Why tolerate those with a high school understanding of the subject and think that they know more than people with years of experience in the matter? It would have been a lot better for him to make the mistake once, twice, then admit his mistake and ask some questions about it.

However, in this case, we are seeing a persistence in his willingness to remain ignorant.


The Laminator


This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by NosyNed, posted 07-20-2004 3:53 PM NosyNed has not replied

coffee_addict
Member
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 102 of 136 (129073)
07-31-2004 1:30 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by Robert Byers
07-27-2004 3:18 PM


Re: Problems of evolution taught in school
RB writes:

We are (unlike usually) going around in circles.
In fact you agreed with my point, I think, that evolution is always taught with the point it replaced previous Bible beliefs. The others contended this was not so.


I really don't understand what you don't understand. It is simple! Science is objective while religion is subjective. The theory of evolution is a scientific theory because it is evidence driven (objective). Creationism is not evidence driven making it subjective.

There is a separation of church/state.
This separation is the justification to censor creationist teachings or criticisms.
SINCE origins are taught that reject the Bible/Christian doctrine then this is the STATE saying they are false.
This is ITSELF contrary to the separation of church/state.

The theory of evolution is not being taught as a doctrine. It is being taught as a scientific theory.

Nowhere in the theory of evolution does it say that the christian doctrine is wrong.

This is an easy equation to understand. Either you refute it as it is or honestly admit its decisive force. (in 30 words or less)
I can't see where my reasoning is wrong and believe this arguement will in the future bring change to education in your Country.
Regards Rob

Have you ever been in a mental hospital? Every single patient thinks that he is completely logical while the rest of the world are nuts. Have you any idea how hard it is to convince a mentally imbalanced person that his logic doesn't make sense? We're having the same trouble with you.


The Laminator

For goodness's sake, please vote Democrat this November!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Robert Byers, posted 07-27-2004 3:18 PM Robert Byers has not replied

coffee_addict
Member
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 103 of 136 (129075)
07-31-2004 1:33 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by Loudmouth
07-27-2004 7:00 PM


Re: Problems of evolution taught in school
Loudmouth writes:

Hopefully we can con Mexico into taking a few here and there through NAFTA.


We don't have to con Mexico into anything. I quite sure they will freely accept free slave laborers from us.


The Laminator

For goodness's sake, please vote Democrat this November!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Loudmouth, posted 07-27-2004 7:00 PM Loudmouth has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.1
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2022