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Author Topic:   Why not teach problems with ToE in school?
Jasonb
Inactive Member


Message 45 of 136 (126584)
07-22-2004 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by tubi417
07-18-2004 3:02 AM


Re: Problems of evolution taught in school
To the Atheists:
Imagine if your child one day came home from school with a Bible, issued by his science teacher, and told you he had to read Genesis 1 for homework. You call the school and the principle informs you that they have abandoned all teachings on evolution an adopted a Christian-Creation curriculum on the origins of man and the universe. You tell the principle that you are not a Christian and you do not believe in God and don’t want the school telling your child any different. The principle responds that it’s just a theory in one class subject and you are free to teach your child different when they get home and the school can’t be expected to teach only what you believe. What would you do? Sue? Protest? Write your Senator? Refuse to allow your child back to school until the curriculum was changed? Would you be outraged? Would you be angry?

To the Christian:
Why are you not angry? Why are you not outraged? The above scenario happened to us. And even today we have done very little about it. Teaching the flaws in the ToE will not win your child for Christ. Trying to simply counter and re-teach what they learn every day, from believable, likable, seemingly trustworthy teachers, is not effective. You cannot tell your child, listen to everything they say except when they talk about evolution, and expect them to fully embrace the truth, without confusion. Christianity will never again be taught in the public schools. The atheists would never allow it. The strength of the resistance to such a movement from the atheists would simply over power any opposition. They would fight tooth and nail, with all their might, to stop such a thing. It seems to me that their passion for their unbelief is stronger than our passion for God. Brothers and Sisters, it ought not to be.


Jason B

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Jasonb
Inactive Member


Message 46 of 136 (126587)
07-22-2004 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by coffee_addict
07-19-2004 2:02 AM


Re: Problems of evolution taught in school
In the eyes of many perhaps learning mathematics and studying evolution are in the same mold, both are mere subjects in school to be learned. But to a theist, they are dangerously different.

Mathematics does not declare there is no God. Evolution, by it’s very nature, declares this.

But my argument is to my Brothers and Sisters in Christ. Why do we treat them the same?


Jason B

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Jasonb
Inactive Member


Message 53 of 136 (126606)
07-22-2004 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by jar
07-22-2004 12:15 PM


Re: Problems of evolution taught in school
You know I foolishly thought that in a forum simply called Creation versus Evolution that anyone who believed in a Creator would fall on the Creation side, but like in most areas of life, it is not that simple.

So let me define terms. I define an evolutionist as someone who does not believe in a Creator and accepts the theories of evolution as to the origin of life. If there is a better term, please let me know and I will be happy to use it.

I define a creationist as someone who believes in a creator. And further define it as someone who believes in the Judeo-Christian Creator biblical since. If there is a better term, please let me know and I will gladly use it.

Don't respond Jasonb. That whole thing is off topic for this thread. Thank you.

I disagree. The question was ‘Why not teach problems with ToE in schools.’ And I m attempting, no comments on how effective please, to answer that from a creationists, remember my definitions, point of view.

Because it is a dangerous compromise. Many of my creationist friends want to push for this compromise and others like teaching Intelligent Design with out naming the designer, because they believe it will help them teach their Christian beliefs. But I say it won’t.

I better lie is still a lie.

Because, as a Christian, there is nothing in the TOE that goes against my religion. In adition, I want my kids to grow up knowing the truth when it comes to Evolution. .

I really can’t respond to this comment here, I’ve already been warned to stay on topic. Perhaps another time. Thanks

You seem to be making one really really big error that lots of people who only read creationist sites rather than speaking to people actually make.

No fair making the, you’re simply not informed oh stupid one, argument so early in my post. At least wait until I make more arguable mistakes. With my above definitions in mind, Evolution does equal Atheism, again if you have a better term, I will be glad to use it.

Thanks


This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by jar, posted 07-22-2004 12:15 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 56 by Loudmouth, posted 07-22-2004 1:46 PM Jasonb has replied
 Message 57 by PaulK, posted 07-22-2004 1:49 PM Jasonb has replied
 Message 66 by Dan Carroll, posted 07-22-2004 3:50 PM Jasonb has replied

Jasonb
Inactive Member


Message 58 of 136 (126657)
07-22-2004 3:01 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Loudmouth
07-22-2004 12:52 PM


Re: Problems of evolution taught in school
If creation were true, then it wouldn't be necessary to even assign the Bible as homework.

In a way you have just proven my point. I proposed a ‘What If’ question to you and the very premise of the question was so far fetched in your mind, so ridiculous, you couldn’t even consider it. This is why I said to the Christians, Christianity will never again be taught in public schools. Atheists would burn the school down first.

No, it didn't. Only a literal Genesis was shown to be wrong, and not even by evolution. The theory of creationism was falsified by the evidence, not by another theory. Once a scientific theory is falsified it is no longer appropriate to teach it in a science class. However, the Bible is as true today as it was 2,000 years ago. It is only a literal reading of Genesis that is wrong.

Shown to be WRONG now come on. You may have theories that suggest, or evidence that is interpreted as being counter to a literal Genesis but to say it has been shown to be wrong is an absolute I just don’t think you can back up. Come on, someone help me out here.


Jason B

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Jasonb
Inactive Member


Message 59 of 136 (126658)
07-22-2004 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by PaulK
07-22-2004 1:49 PM


Re: Problems of evolution taught in school
I have a new Title. I am a Fundamentalist Christian. Thanks PaulK.

Anyone know of a Fundamentalist vs Evolution Forum(

This message has been edited by Jasonb, 07-22-2004 02:04 PM


Jason B

This message is a reply to:
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Jasonb
Inactive Member


Message 62 of 136 (126666)
07-22-2004 3:15 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Loudmouth
07-22-2004 1:46 PM


Re: Problems of evolution taught in school
And our suggestions were that the "problems" that creationists want taught are not, in fact, problems. This is the problem with creationists

I am not advocating that we teach the problems with the TOE, in schools. In fact I am advocating the opposite; That Christians, especially Fundamentalists like myself (thanks PaulK) should abandon the notion that our Christian worldview and the public school’s secular worldview can somehow be compatible if only we teach that there our some errors in the TOE. I don’t think it will help our fundamental cause, and that is to win our children to Christ. I think it causes confusion.


Jason B

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Loudmouth, posted 07-22-2004 1:46 PM Loudmouth has replied

Replies to this message:
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Jasonb
Inactive Member


Message 70 of 136 (126694)
07-22-2004 4:08 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by Dan Carroll
07-22-2004 3:50 PM


Re: Problems of evolution taught in school
I think this forum should be renamed, Evolution vs Evolution. Because that is the only discussion allowed. Am I the only one who stays on the topic?

‘Problems of evolution taught in school’ I say it is a mute point, if your purpose is to pursued people that evolution is false in order to have them except a creator. I don’t think this is where our (Creationists) time and energy should be spent.


Jason B

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Jasonb
Inactive Member


Message 73 of 136 (126707)
07-22-2004 4:33 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by Loudmouth
07-22-2004 3:57 PM


Re: Problems of evolution taught in school
My last comment on this thread… (Stop Applauding)

That's what happened to me as well. Luckily, I was able to realize that it was a relationship between me and God,

I did not come to faith in God, by reading the bible. It was just the opposite. My faith in God lead me to the Bible. I accept the Bible as truth because I have no reason to doubt it. This may make me a lousy science teacher in a public school system, but it does not make me uninformed or somehow less intelligent than anyone else.

I sense a degree of hostility and arrogance in this thread that says if you take the bible as literal truth then you are a fool. I am sure other Fundamental Christians have received the same treatment which is why this forum seams to consist of primarily Atheists and Liberal Christians. I hope I can continue to contribute to the discussion and not have my pearls immediately cast aside. (That's a biblical reference. Geese, tough crowd.)
Thanks


Jason B

This message is a reply to:
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