The Word Evolutionists

I think that the pascals wager, when used by theists, is purely a way to get us athiests to start believing, cos once we do it, then we shall realise theres no wager at all, because god obviously does exist... I dont think that they are using the wager personally though.To mike,
Dawkins is an extremely well known science writer (i think at least two of his books were on the recommended reading list for several of my courses), i know that other unis recommend him also for bio courses. If you havent read his books, tho i suspect u may have done, i would highly recommend them, his theory on the selfish gene is really quite interesting, and personally i feel is the most sensible evolutionarily speaking.In terms of faith as a comfort, or safety blanket etc i think that there is a lot of truth in that, however yes lots of people have different safety blankets (a classic case is when people start rocking in times of real stress, the tempo is usually equal to the normal heart rate, its thought this comes from the time spent in the womb) So there are a lot of comfort acts that we use, i just think faith is one of the bigger (and possibly better) ones.As we have already discussed before those that believe lose nothing in death either way, those that dont feel that they have nothing to lose either, i mean either they are right and nothingness is exactly that, or there is life eternal of one sort or another and so will just be content with that.And now to be ontopic, personally i dont have a problem with being classed as an evolutionist, its merely a tag that helps explains what some of my views are, same as athiest, zoologist, kleptomaniac etc etc etcUnseul

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Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life....Do unto others before they do unto you.

I know what your saying, as i have said i do believe faith is merely a comfort thing. However i also think that believers (at least some of these we're talking to) arent believing just in case, i believe they worship because they think that god really exists (and i personally believe that in doing so are satisifying a need for comfort), however its their conscious mind you have to debate with. I mean i can reason that is why people believe, but as an actual believer you couldnt believe this else you would instantly just stop believing. Its like the abuser you were talking about, they give other reasons for their belief, because they cant see the truth.Unseul

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Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life....Do unto others before they do unto you.

The thing is mike is that i do believe that i can understand the view of a believer, i used to believe, tho i suspect not all that strongly, but still i knew that god was up there, christ had died for us, and that heaven and hell were about etc etc. I can understand what it is like to know something is true, i can understand how you feel about your faith, you know god exists. This leaves you with a view of athiests as people who have lost faith, or are missing out on a great something, and so it strikes you as insane when they try and convince you your wrong.However from this side of the board it looks just as bad, we have someone believing in something for which there is no evidence, many different versions, and in the end a trait that can easily be explained as a comfort factor stemming from humans need to have a definite leader that is about.I am one hundred percent positive that no number of athiests will remove you from your faith, no matter what. The only person who should be able to do that is yourself, and that all depends on circumstances. Personally i hope that you dont lose your faith, as i have said before i envy you, but i am still sure that there is no god out there and what you do at times (church etc) could be considered a waste of time. However it means that your socialising, being part of a social group etc etc so its a good thing for you.Oh yeah, as far as proving my beliefs about what i think, well i just need to look at your posts and every other christian on this board that continually say that god exists , i have no reason to believe that your lying (at least not all of you, some of you might, but i doubt it)Unseul

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Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life....Do unto others before they do unto you.

Well i gave my opinion in my first post but...I believe that you are missing something, i think that evolutionist is merely a word that means someone who thinks evolution is the best explaination for the diversity of life upon this earth. Maybe creationists somehow misuse it to construe a religous type doctrine about it, however i do not believe that it is any different from biologist, scientist, physicist etc etc it is merely a description of that person.People start new words, language evolves, and i feel that evolutionist is perfectly reasonable addition to the english language. I think that maybe you have only read posts where creationists are attacking "evolutionists" they arent inventing a strawman, but merely applying a label that make things easier to understand, same as we apply the label creationist to them.Unseul

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Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life....Do unto others before they do unto you.

Well so far no one seems to have had a problem with the word evolutionist, and if they dont have a problem there posting on this topic would serve little purpose as in the time that its been about no one has disagreed. Except of course yourself, you have been offered reasons for why i personally disagree, no one else really offered reasons (cept for maybe ned i think) and you didnt attempt to dispute them. I dont have a problem discussing the topic on hand, however there is very little discussion about it seeing as there is little dispute, theres only so many ways of saying "i agree".However i do know what you mean about topic drift being annoying, however its the way it tends to work, someone drops a reference in, which becomes something else, it seems like a large degree of time and effort to create a new topic, since the topic being discussed is changing rapidly, and so many topics would be needed. I spose people just discuss whatever the topic turns to at the time, although it is drift it at least keeps people talking, and not put off by having to start large numbers of new topics, all going thru proposed topics first.Unseul

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Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life....Do unto others before they do unto you.

OK, do you reject the words physicist and scientist on the same principle? I am assuming not. These are merely descriptive words. I feel that evolutionist is merely the logical progression of someone who accepts evolution. Some creationists admittedly argue that evolution is a religion, however i feel they have been refuted satisfactorily. This however only means that the word evolutionist is misrepresented, as many words and objects can be, and not that an evolutionist follows it as a religion.I disagree also with your definition of a creationist. I believe that creationist is a describing word of someone who believes that everything was created (by everything i refer to at least the very precursers such as energy and various laws etc, everything can be derived from those things). Not all creationists follow the bible, christians base their religion on the bible, some christians are creationists, some evolutionists. Creation is merely the act of a being creating everything, not the entire belief system etc, merely one of the possible beliefs. Evolution is merely the theory of biological diversity, however it by no means defines biology, it is once again merely a facet.I think that in general -ist after a word gives a definition that the individual being describes follows/believes/accepts the word before the ist.Unseul

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Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life....Do unto others before they do unto you.

Maybe they do misuse the word evolutionist, however they are still only describing someone who accepts evolution, no matter what they then assign to that person, they are still an evolutionist. I could say that all theists are arrogant pompus idiotic little prats, the word creationist refers to someone who believes in creation, the rest is merely my own concoction on what those people also are. Incidently i only believe that of some creationists, and some evolutionists, and any other ists about i suspect.There are a few christians here that accept evolution. What you must accept is that creationists are not necessarily christian. Those christians who are creationists would no doubt feel that they may lose their entire religion if it wasnt true, however obviously that is not necessary as we have people about that still have religion.I think the main reason for this is that to truly disprove creation in all senses one would have to disprove the ultimate creator, this would cause problems for many religions as a whole. I am sure that there could be some strange fictional circumstance that would disprove biology in one fell swoop, and so evolution would go with it (dont ask for an example it would have to be some strange nihilist concept i guess.There are many situations in which a group of people are assigned other qualities, however one must realise that these other qualities are still not the definition of the group.Unseul

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Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life....Do unto others before they do unto you.

Well hopefully ill be back, but not for a few months like a said.That pray you bullied me into is still in theory carrying on, im not sure as to its success so far, although i suspect this weekend will put it truly to the test, and it ends when i get back from bolivia, so if i return and we both remember ask me then. Whether or not it coming true will return me to a faith or not, well that we shall have to see, but id say it may help, but i wouldnt place any bets on me believing again.It doesnt surprise me that your not part of a social group really, to me that just makes your faith even better from my point of view, less waste as such. And quite simply if your faith causes you to ask many questions, the answers (evolution for instance) you accept then that is excellent.Maybe one day i'll believe again tho i doubt it. I just hope that in times of desperate fear that i have the strength of my convictions not to try praying.Im afraid atheist is truly a good description of myself, and i dispute being under anyones command . If anything your the one being commanded, by something that doesnt even exist Unseul

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Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life....Do unto others before they do unto you.