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Author Topic:   What's the creationists thought on this?
ZenMonkey
Member (Idle past 3020 days)
Posts: 428
From: Portland, OR USA
Joined: 09-25-2009


Message 111 of 136 (620168)
06-14-2011 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Chuck77
06-14-2011 5:40 AM


Re: aesearcRe: Schweitzer
And now back to the matter at hand. Do you see that creationists are not telling the truth when they claim that scientists have found soft tissue present in dinosaur remains? (I believe that Ray Comfort has even claimed that they've found actual dinosaur flesh and blood.)


Your beliefs do not effect reality and evidently reality does not effect your beliefs.
-Theodoric

Reality has a well-known liberal bias.
-Steven Colbert

I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it.
- John Stuart Mill


This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Chuck77, posted 06-14-2011 5:40 AM Chuck77 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by Mazzy, posted 06-15-2011 5:41 PM ZenMonkey has responded

ZenMonkey
Member (Idle past 3020 days)
Posts: 428
From: Portland, OR USA
Joined: 09-25-2009


Message 123 of 136 (620371)
06-15-2011 9:41 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by Mazzy
06-15-2011 5:41 PM


Re: aesearcRe: Schweitzer
My apologies. I did not intend to be rude, and I'm sorry if my tone was offensive to you.

I see that others have already addressed the issue of the possible survival of soft tissue dinosaur remains. A full reading of the source material does make it clear that the remains in question were in fact mineralized - that is to say, fossils - and not soft tissue per se.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that the objection you and other creationists have to the fact that dinosaurs have been extinct for about 65 million years is that this is evidence that contradicts the notion of a young earth. I've mostly seen this claim of fresh dinosaur remains as part of a general denial of the accuracy of radiometric dating techniques. Is that what you're objecting to?

The two articles you cite in the later part of your post are about evidence that not all species of dinosaur went extinct about 65 million years ago, but that at least one line survives for another 700,000. I can't see that being able to determine that a hadrosaur bone is 64.8 million years old as opposed to 65 or 66 million goes very far to support the belief that dinosaurs actually went extinct only a few thousand years ago.

Interestingly enough, a major point of both articles is how this example shows how much more accurate dating techniques have become.

Edited by ZenMonkey, : Clarity of expression.


Your beliefs do not effect reality and evidently reality does not effect your beliefs.
-Theodoric

Reality has a well-known liberal bias.
-Steven Colbert

I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it.
- John Stuart Mill


This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Mazzy, posted 06-15-2011 5:41 PM Mazzy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by Mazzy, posted 07-25-2011 5:27 PM ZenMonkey has responded

ZenMonkey
Member (Idle past 3020 days)
Posts: 428
From: Portland, OR USA
Joined: 09-25-2009


Message 133 of 136 (625825)
07-25-2011 9:55 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by Mazzy
07-25-2011 5:27 PM


Re: aesearcRe: Schweitzer
Mazzy writes:

I am not young earth so that is an erraneous assumption. I am only young earth when it comes to mankind, so when dinos lived is of no consequence to my beliefs. However, 'soft tissue' over 60myo produces some skepticism for me, regardless of the fact that it does not matter to me.

Hi Mazzy, nice to see you in a different thread.

I hope that it's clearer now that what Mary Schweitzer recovered was not the sort of soft tissue remains that would cast doubt on the fact that dinosaurs have been extinct for some 66 million years, and not a few thousand or even a few hundred as some creationists have claimed.

The thing is, dinosaurs do matter. If you accept that the established dating of the fossilized remains of dinosaurs is in fact valid, then you have no grounds for doubting that the dating of human remains is valid as well. You can't claim that a tape measure is accurate when it says that the couch is 7 feet wide, but that the same tape measure is wrong when it says that the living room is 15 feet long. You don't get to pick and choose. And that's a serious problem for you. Accurate dating of various human and pre-human remains show a clear transition from more primitive "ape-like" forms to modern humans. No overlap. No H. ergaster hanging around with Australopithicus or with H. sapiens either.

Now, I will quickly point out that this thread is not about human evolution at all, so we shouldn't derail the topic by continuing this particular conversation. The point was just that those creationists who claimed the this discovery cast doubt on the fossil record were wrong.


Your beliefs do not effect reality and evidently reality does not effect your beliefs.
-Theodoric

Reality has a well-known liberal bias.
-Steven Colbert

I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it.
- John Stuart Mill


This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Mazzy, posted 07-25-2011 5:27 PM Mazzy has not yet responded

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