Hammer found in Cretaceous layer

Hi Tal. Thanks very much for doing this thread. I've mentioned this hammer in the past with a very limited knowledge about it. I'm wondering if Baugh's reluctance to have it analyzed is that he is afraid of a biased analysis being done. However, I would think that he could muster up someone who is competent to observe the whole process. I'm sure he won't want to take his eyes off the whole process himself. (THIS'S NOT SAID TO QUESTION THE INTEGRITY OF PURPLE Y. OR ANYONE ELSE.) I'm simply thinking of some reasons why Baugh might be reluctant to let it out. Baugh also has a cup in coal, as well as some other stuff which I'm interested in. I do hope an objective analysis will be done so the truth about whether or not it is bonafide will be solidly established.I would think that Baugh would want to verify everything by several sources so as to establish confidence in him and his work. If he's balking on that simply because he's afraid of the truth, I would fault him there, but he shouldn't be judged until all the facts are out as to his integrity.Btw, are you a US soldier in Iraq? If so, thanks for putting your life on the line for your nation, freedom and world stability. We pray often for you all, and I'll especially remember you in prayer that God will bless and protect you. This message has been edited by buzsaw, 01-06-2005 20:33 AM

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The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buz

?? I'm not sure I understand your question. Any sample from a coal mine would logically be collected by a coal miner if by "collected," you mean acquired. If a miner brought me a chunk of coal from his mine with a cup securely embedded in it, you bet, I'd accept it. I would then begin an analysis of it, which I presume Baugh has done. I've seen it on TV and it looks good, but I'm no expert on this stuff, for sure.

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The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buz

To be fair and objective, that would depend on the circumstances concerning the collapse, extent of breakup and position of the cup, wouldn't it?

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The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buz

Look, my point is that no coal mine is gona let Mr. Baugh go down and hunt stuff, nor is Mr. Baugh gona want to spend his time coal mining for artifacts. If anything's gona be found it's gona be found by a miner. I've seen this cup on tv and it's not what a coal miner could concoct up for a joke.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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In Jehovah God's Universe, time, energy and boundless space had no beginning and will have no ending. It is, has always been and forever will be intelligently designed, changed and managed by his providence. buzsaw

Thanks Berberry. I assume Tal was referring to the cup thing, but not sure. Tal, if you were referring to the cup in coal, it is topic related in that it shows that the hammer is not the only similar type artifact Baugh has, for the cup is his also. By showing this to be the case, it may lend some credence to the hammer, if the cup can be authenticated, or vise versa.Yes, it is important that you use the reply button of the post you're responding to. Thanks.

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In Jehovah God's Universe, time, energy and boundless space had no beginning and will have no ending. It is, has always been and forever will be intelligently designed, changed and managed by his providence. buzsaw

Can you cite a couple of examples of what you are referring to in order that we may compare them to Baughs hammer and cup?

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In Jehovah God's Universe, time, energy and boundless space had no beginning and will have no ending. It is, has always been and forever will be intelligently designed, changed and managed by his providence. buzsaw

1. .....And you know by mine experience?2. I see nothing produced by skeptics as to how the tricks were allegedly done, that is to produce items embeded in actual coal deposits artificially. Can you show how the tricksters allegedly did it?

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In Jehovah God's Universe, time, energy and boundless space had no beginning and will have no ending. It is, has always been and forever will be intelligently designed, changed and managed by his providence. buzsaw

1. Hmmm, all this talk about bogus real looking archeological stuff makes one wonder just how much of you people's ideological alleged evidence has been proven not bogus and how much of it has been subjected to the analytic scrutiny of creation scientists for fairness an balance.2. Has it been shown that coal can be faked or molded so as to encase things like cups and hammers, etc, and is there such a thing as young coal mines a few centuries old?

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In Jehovah God's Universe, time, energy and boundless space had no beginning and will have no ending. It is, has always been and forever will be intelligently designed, changed and managed by his providence. buzsaw

Doubtless, an expert, and for that matter even a novice, would be able to observe readily the difference between the appearance of a solid chunk of coal and cemented crumbled coal. I've handled coal for fuel, including larger chunks and I see no way crumbled stuff could be made to appear like a virgin chunk, either in color or in texture. That, imo, is far fetched desperation strawman.

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In Jehovah God's Universe, time, energy and boundless space had no beginning and will have no ending. It is, has always been and forever will be intelligently designed, changed and managed by his providence. buzsaw

It needn't by be by creation lab perse. There may or may not be such. I don't know. That's not what I said. It would be subjecting it to analysis observed by yc creation scientists.

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In Jehovah God's Universe, time, energy and boundless space had no beginning and will have no ending. It is, has always been and forever will be intelligently designed, changed and managed by his providence. buzsaw

This is not likely the circumstances of the Baugh discovery, though possible. Likely this piece turned up in a circumstance where it happened to become visible to someone near it, such as at the outer areas of a collapse, a wall of coal intact after the blast, or in a coal cart/truck transporting coal chunks, et al. Yah and lots of other straws in all kinds of situations after the tornadoe, so as not to hit things with great force. The straw in the pole just happened to hit it precisely so it could happen, didn't it. By the same token, the cup chunk likely just happened to emerge precisely to be found. Good. I'm not either.Btw, my apologies for not getting back to you sooner. Been engrossed in other stuff and outa sight, outa mind til Schraf reminded me about it. Thanks for your patience.

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In Jehovah God's Universe, time, energy and boundless space had no beginning and will have no ending. The universe, by and through him, is, has always been and forever will be intelligently designed, changed and managed by his providence. buzsaw

How would that be significantly relevant? Certainly not relevant enough to classify as an explanation, would it?Thanks for your patience. This thread got away and outa mind before I got back to it.

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In Jehovah God's Universe, time, energy and boundless space had no beginning and will have no ending. The universe, by and through him, is, has always been and forever will be intelligently designed, changed and managed by his providence. buzsaw

I don't have anything. Baugh has it. I'm just posting observations and some possibilities that some of Baugh's skeptics might not have considered.1. Hmmm, all this talk about bogus real looking archeological stuff makes one wonder just how much of you people's ideological alleged evidence has been proven not bogus and how much of it has been subjected to the analytic scrutiny of creation scientists for fairness an balance.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Granted, but I have to distinguish authentic stuff all the time in my business. From what I saw on TV up close, imo, this would be a tough one to fake, but I suppose a possibility. Molded stuff definitely looks molded and easily detected by the surface and mold marks. I mean coal which became coal a few centuries ago.My apologies to you also, for being so long answering.

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In Jehovah God's Universe, time, energy and boundless space had no beginning and will have no ending. The universe, by and through him, is, has always been and forever will be intelligently designed, changed and managed by his providence. buzsaw

1. Do we have any examples of this for comparison?2. How much time would it take for concreted dust train to actually look like hard coal chunks so as to look like normal coal?3. Likely the product from this would be quite easily distinguished by people in the know. I'm sure they're welcome to observe Baughs specimine on site.

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In Jehovah God's Universe, time, energy and boundless space had no beginning and will have no ending. The universe, by and through him, is, has always been and forever will be intelligently designed, changed and managed by his providence. buzsaw

How would heat from an explosion melt and reform coal to look like natural coal? I believe it would rather burn some of it and fragmatize the other.

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In Jehovah God's Universe, time, energy and boundless space had no beginning and will have no ending. The universe, by and through him, is, has always been and forever will be intelligently designed, changed and managed by his providence. buzsaw