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Author Topic:   Feedback about reliability of dating
elcano
Member (Idle past 4274 days)
Posts: 60
From: Moscow
Joined: 01-12-2007


Message 44 of 77 (376885)
01-14-2007 6:18 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Jydee
03-24-2005 12:22 PM


Re: Dating of manuscripts
There are facts, that Pompeii was lost on December, 16th, 1631.
On the Via Nazionale road from Naples to Reggio/Calabria, at 15 km, a so-called "Epitaphio" on the face of the Villa Faraone Mennella today presents two memorial inscriptions in Latin on a monumental volcanic stone.
It is translation from latin.
"This road from Naples to Reggio [i.e. the Royal City], infamous for continuous robberies [raids] and difficult transit on account of the arid stones of Mount Vesuvius, has been freed from ambush, levelled, straightened and broadened, by means of the funds given by the Province.
Later 68 years in 17 Calend. (on December, 16th) January in Phillip's reign IV.
Smoke, flame, roaring, shaking, ashes, eruption awfully wild at that time Vesuvius has obviously caused fear in one, and at weight of people. The heated heat from an aperture of the fiery cave, violently loudly roaring, has opened the way through constraining surface to an output, has moved to Hellespont, has furiously destroyed top of mountain, monstrously suddenly widely having opened a pharynx of mountain, next day a tail of ashes was dragged all filling similarly to the sea hostile to the sea. The river of the sulfur, burning bitumen, fetid stones, the various deformed metal ores, a mix of water and fire, moving an avalanche, a smoke, ashes, disastrous sewage have unloaded a ridge of mountain.
Pompeii, Herculaneum, Octavianum, partially Retina and Portici, woods and country houses, and houses has in a flash scattered, has burnt, has destroyed, (stream) bearing all this before itself, as extraction in mad devastating triumph. Marble monuments have disappeared actually also, are deeply buried, the inquiring monument of Vice-king has really been destroyed. Emmanuel Fonseca and Zunica.
As memory of the sizes of human disaster, as well about the accepted measures on clearing of a stone rain and rescue completely each of our fellow tribesmen. Year of Redemption 1634. Prefect of road of Antonio Suares Messia." Just a moment...
Edited by elcano, : No reason given.

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 Message 45 by Wepwawet, posted 01-14-2007 8:18 AM elcano has replied

  
elcano
Member (Idle past 4274 days)
Posts: 60
From: Moscow
Joined: 01-12-2007


Message 46 of 77 (376896)
01-14-2007 8:50 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by Wepwawet
01-14-2007 8:18 AM


Re: Dating of manuscripts
see PAGE NOT FOUND | Loyola University Chicago Libraries
In this work Neapolitan Jesuit G. B. Mascolo records his observations of the eruption of Mount Vesuvio in 1631. The illustrations record the appearance of the volcano and the surrounding area before and after the eruption.
On a map there is Pompeii and Herculaneum (1631 Year )
Edited by elcano, : No reason given.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by RAZD, posted 01-14-2007 9:29 AM elcano has replied
 Message 48 by jar, posted 01-14-2007 10:09 AM elcano has replied
 Message 54 by Coragyps, posted 01-14-2007 11:21 AM elcano has replied
 Message 64 by Wepwawet, posted 01-14-2007 9:18 PM elcano has not replied

  
elcano
Member (Idle past 4274 days)
Posts: 60
From: Moscow
Joined: 01-12-2007


Message 49 of 77 (376903)
01-14-2007 10:13 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by RAZD
01-14-2007 9:29 AM


Re: Dating of vesuvius
Any medieval subject to Pompeii it is not found. Above this city only one layer of the ground from eruption Vesuvius. (7-10 meters, either 79 year, or 1631)

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 Message 50 by RAZD, posted 01-14-2007 10:23 AM elcano has replied

  
elcano
Member (Idle past 4274 days)
Posts: 60
From: Moscow
Joined: 01-12-2007


Message 51 of 77 (376905)
01-14-2007 10:29 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by jar
01-14-2007 10:09 AM


Re: Dating of manuscripts
Pliny the Younger in the book of 6 letters 16 and 20 describes eruption of Vesuvius. However it does not result date of eruption. Pliny the Younger in general anywhere does not mention Pompeii, it does not know such city.
See IIS 8.5 Detailed Error - 404.0 - Not Found

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elcano
Member (Idle past 4274 days)
Posts: 60
From: Moscow
Joined: 01-12-2007


Message 52 of 77 (376907)
01-14-2007 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by RAZD
01-14-2007 10:23 AM


Re: Dating of vesuvius
Eruptions of Vesuvius was much. Archeologists have found to Pompeii a volcanic layer only from one eruption which they dated 79 year. To Pompeii it has not been found any traces from other eruptions.

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elcano
Member (Idle past 4274 days)
Posts: 60
From: Moscow
Joined: 01-12-2007


Message 55 of 77 (376911)
01-14-2007 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by RAZD
01-14-2007 11:04 AM


Re: Dating of vesuvius
A Plinian eruption ejects a column of tephra high into the atmoshpere (tephra refers to any material that is ejected from a volcano into the atmosphere), creating a form similar to the mushroom cloud of a nuclear explosion. A Plinian eruption of Vesuvius began at midday on 24 August 79 AD created a Plinian column approximately 20 km (66,000 feet) high. This phase created a rain of ash and pumice over a broad area primarily to the south of Vesuvius, carried by prevailing winds. This phase lasted approximately eighteen hours, when approximately 2.5 meters (8.2 feet) of pumice stones fell on Pompeii, an initial layer of 1.3 to 1.4 meters (4.3 to 4.6 feet) of white pumice, followed by 1.1 to 1.3 meters (3.6 to 4.3 feet) of denser gray pumice. The average diameter of the pumice fallout was 1 cm (0.4 in), and posed little direct threat to human life.
http://urban.arch.virginia.edu/struct/pompeii/volcanic.html
Only such layers and only from eruption 79 years.

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Replies to this message:
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elcano
Member (Idle past 4274 days)
Posts: 60
From: Moscow
Joined: 01-12-2007


Message 56 of 77 (376912)
01-14-2007 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by Coragyps
01-14-2007 11:21 AM


Re: Dating of manuscripts
P.R. Renne assumes :
“We sought to investigate the limits of the 40Ar/39Ar method by application to ejecta from the infamous eruption of Vesuvius? Which destroyed Pompeii and other Roman cities, AS DOCUMENTED IN THE WRITINGS OF PLINY THE Yanger”
http://hbar.phys.msu.ru/gorm/dating/vesuvius.pdf
The given assumption false.
Pliny Younger does not know year of eruption of Vesuvius and does not know the city of Pompeii.

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elcano
Member (Idle past 4274 days)
Posts: 60
From: Moscow
Joined: 01-12-2007


Message 59 of 77 (376936)
01-14-2007 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by RAZD
01-14-2007 12:50 PM


Re: Dating of vesuvius
I do not speak, that there is a layer only from eruption 79 years, It archeologists speak all, that me extremely surprises. And on a monument costing in Torre del Greco it is written Pompeii and Herculaneum were lost on December, 16th, 1631. What are possible conclusions?

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elcano
Member (Idle past 4274 days)
Posts: 60
From: Moscow
Joined: 01-12-2007


Message 60 of 77 (376945)
01-14-2007 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by Vacate
01-14-2007 12:59 PM


Re: Dating of manuscripts
Yes you correctly speak. Pliny the Younger and Martialis know about eruption of Vesuvius but in what to year it has occured they to us do not inform.
They do not know the city of Pompeii and Herculaneum.
Only Dio Cassius (Xiphilinus is the author of 11 centuries) knows about destructions of Herculaneum and Pompeii.
The first edition of the book Xiphilinus was in 1551.
There are no other ancient authors knowing about destruction Pompeii and Herculaneum, only Xiphilin.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Admin, posted 01-14-2007 2:17 PM elcano has replied

  
elcano
Member (Idle past 4274 days)
Posts: 60
From: Moscow
Joined: 01-12-2007


Message 63 of 77 (376955)
01-14-2007 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Admin
01-14-2007 2:17 PM


Re: Dating of manuscripts
well

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