Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 85 (8914 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 06-19-2019 3:10 PM
35 online now:
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: 4petdinos
Post Volume:
Total: 854,152 Year: 9,188/19,786 Month: 1,610/2,119 Week: 370/576 Day: 45/128 Hour: 1/6


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Prev1
2
34Next
Author Topic:   The Tesla Challenge
Granny Magda
Member (Idle past 56 days)
Posts: 2380
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007


Message 16 of 54 (450649)
01-23-2008 2:15 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by teen4christ
01-22-2008 2:06 PM


Re: The greatest force of all
You make a fair point. Our existence depends on all forces and the fine balance between them. Gravity just seems a little more obvious to me (and apparently to LucytheApe), but what is obvious is ultimately a subjective judgement. The answer will vary from person to person.


Mutate and Survive
This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by teen4christ, posted 01-22-2008 2:06 PM teen4christ has not yet responded

    
tesla
Member (Idle past 2223 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 17 of 54 (451848)
01-28-2008 9:51 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by sidelined
01-22-2008 11:44 AM


Re: The greatest force of all
How is this a point to be made? I was explaining to tesla as well as to the standing audience that he is wrong concerning his statement that gravity holds atoms together

i never said it did, although i believe they are related.

i said G-force (short for "the great force") which is what i was taught it was called. it isn't very well understood, but it is considered infinitly more powerful than gravity.

my theory concerning the G-force and gravity, is that the collective sharing of the g-force in atoms resonate together. so that matter composed of more atoms, have more shared g-force, which resonate as a greater gravity. which is why the attraction is not by size, but by density.

furthermore, the interactions of the universal energies are in harmony, and are considered by most as the "natural order".

no man has yet built a star system, much less a galaxy, nor created any biological thing from a stone. which should at least humble yourselves to admit the complexity and scale.

how about this sidelined, post for our good friends a scale of the universe in this way:

show the earth next to the sun in scale. show the planets in the solar system next to the sun and earth in scale. then show an averaged size star next to our sun and planets and earth to scale.

then show the sky at night with the clarity of all the stars in it. then show the darkest known spot of that sky amplified as much as possible.

now..looking at that...re-evaluate the ability and knowledge of man.


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides
This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by sidelined, posted 01-22-2008 11:44 AM sidelined has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Granny Magda, posted 01-30-2008 9:58 AM tesla has responded
 Message 19 by teen4christ, posted 01-30-2008 1:46 PM tesla has responded

  
Granny Magda
Member (Idle past 56 days)
Posts: 2380
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007


Message 18 of 54 (452414)
01-30-2008 9:58 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by tesla
01-28-2008 9:51 PM


Re: The greatest force of all
Hi Tesla,

tesla writes:

i said G-force (short for "the great force") which is what i was taught it was called. it isn't very well understood, but it is considered infinitly more powerful than gravity.

That is where the confusion arises then. There is no such force as "the great force", at least, if there is, then that is not what physicists call it. Perhaps you mean the strong nuclear force or the weak nuclear force. If so it would help if you referred to them in a way that others could understand. For the record, G-force is universally understood as referring to gravity. You need to iron out some of this confusion before expecting others to take your idea seriously.
PS-Don't expect a reply from Sidelined, he's not about right now.


Mutate and Survive
This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by tesla, posted 01-28-2008 9:51 PM tesla has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by tesla, posted 01-30-2008 6:00 PM Granny Magda has responded

    
teen4christ
Member (Idle past 3965 days)
Posts: 238
Joined: 01-15-2008


Message 19 of 54 (452480)
01-30-2008 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by tesla
01-28-2008 9:51 PM


Re: The greatest force of all
Tesla, I'm curious about something. Where did you learn about this "great force"?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by tesla, posted 01-28-2008 9:51 PM tesla has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by tesla, posted 01-30-2008 6:14 PM teen4christ has responded

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 2223 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 20 of 54 (452572)
01-30-2008 6:00 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Granny Magda
01-30-2008 9:58 AM


Re: The greatest force of all
ah. thanks for the correction:) the force that holds atoms together is the force I'm referring. i guess that would be the "strong" force?

ill make sure i remember that in the future.


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides
This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Granny Magda, posted 01-30-2008 9:58 AM Granny Magda has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Granny Magda, posted 01-31-2008 7:17 AM tesla has responded

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 2223 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 21 of 54 (452576)
01-30-2008 6:14 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by teen4christ
01-30-2008 1:46 PM


Re: The greatest force of all
i don't really remember. its been a long time since Ive really gone over it, i may have learned it in the ninth grade (where i spent three years) or read about it in an encyclopedia or one of the great books of the western world.

I'm mostly self taught, and have a G.E.D. but it has aided my understanding because I had to work out truths of text by myself. the same way i learned how to be a mechanic, hands on. i watch people of today in school, and notice how they just copy text for online degrees, and really learn nothing. or listen to a teacher and take the teachers word on the truth of it. Ive always been stoic to the point of anal, in that if i cant apply what Ive read to logic, there's too many missing pieces to take it at face value. and either more research needs done, or its useless information.

I'm just a construction worker. but i know that a person judges a person by what they have and what they do. i believe a lot of it is subconscious. but observe the way a person reacts to a movie star, who is rude, and then watch the same person react to a construction worker, who isn't. you'll find that the interest of the person is far greater for the rude movie star.

knoledge works the same way. a person who has a lot of documents to show how smart they are, many times, will believe themselves to be so smart there is nothing left to learn. but the man, who walks with eyes open for truth , and willingness to learn, is far smarter.

so also did the hypocrites in Jesus time, who were known to be the most godly among men, were by Jesus estimation, evil hypocrites. because they glorified themselves. and Glory belongs to God. so also, does what i give here not meant to glorify me, but to glorify God. so if one comes to understand the truth, and i die tomorrow, and the work is passed on, then God will be glorified when men understand he IS.


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides
This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by teen4christ, posted 01-30-2008 1:46 PM teen4christ has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-30-2008 6:42 PM tesla has responded
 Message 24 by teen4christ, posted 01-30-2008 7:38 PM tesla has responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 54 (452579)
01-30-2008 6:42 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by tesla
01-30-2008 6:14 PM


take your own advice
i watch people of today in school, and notice how they just copy text for online degrees, and really learn nothing.

You've read many posts from good people explaining how you are wrong or mistaken, and yet you continue to spout the same idea as if it were correct. It seems you really have learned nothing.

if i cant apply what Ive read to logic, there's too many missing pieces to take it at face value. and either more research needs done, or its useless information.

Why not take into consideration that you are just misunderstanding what you've read? Or simply don't understand the subject.

When everyone is telling you that the sky is blue after you repeatedly claim its green, it is a good indication that you might be wrong. Why can you accept that as a possibility?

but the man, who walks with eyes open for truth , and willingness to learn, is far smarter.

Take your own advice, man. Instead of continuing to spout the same nonsense, why don't you try to understand what people are telling you? There's a lot to learn if YOU had the willingness...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by tesla, posted 01-30-2008 6:14 PM tesla has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by tesla, posted 01-30-2008 7:30 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 2223 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 23 of 54 (452594)
01-30-2008 7:30 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by New Cat's Eye
01-30-2008 6:42 PM


Re: take your own advice
Take your own advice, man. Instead of continuing to spout the same nonsense, why don't you try to understand what people are telling you? There's a lot to learn if YOU had the willingness...

i am willing with proof. no one has proven the laws wrong. and all my observation's say there correct.

When everyone is telling you that the sky is blue after you repeatedly claim its green, it is a good indication that you might be wrong. Why can you accept that as a possibility?

i considered it very seriously for a very long time. years. I've just been hashing it out longer so already know a lot of the debate I'm having with others, I've had it with myself.

Edited by tesla, : No reason given.


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides
This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-30-2008 6:42 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by teen4christ, posted 01-30-2008 7:43 PM tesla has responded
 Message 45 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-31-2008 10:09 AM tesla has not yet responded

  
teen4christ
Member (Idle past 3965 days)
Posts: 238
Joined: 01-15-2008


Message 24 of 54 (452598)
01-30-2008 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by tesla
01-30-2008 6:14 PM


Re: The greatest force of all
quote:
i watch people of today in school, and notice how they just copy text for online degrees, and really learn nothing.

I'm beginning to understand where your misunderstandings are coming from.

You know, not everyone go for online degrees. I spend at least 4-6 hours a day with my face burried in my books and notes trying to work out problems. I'm not a very bright person so it always seems like I have to work extra hard to run as fast as the people around me. The best thing that happened in my life was that I realized very early on that I wasn't as bright as other people around me. Only through humility (a lot of it in fact) have I been able to make it this far.

My only advice to you is this, and this comes straight from my personal experience. The first step toward learning any new information and absorbing it correctly is to start out with a really open mind. In other words, it's always better to assume you will learn something rather than be stubborn with your preconceptions, which are more often than not are really misconceptions.

With that said, you can take my word for it that there is no such thing as the "great force". I was tempted to think you meant the strong and weak nuclear forces, but even that didn't make much sense.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by tesla, posted 01-30-2008 6:14 PM tesla has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by tesla, posted 01-30-2008 7:45 PM teen4christ has not yet responded

  
teen4christ
Member (Idle past 3965 days)
Posts: 238
Joined: 01-15-2008


Message 25 of 54 (452599)
01-30-2008 7:43 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by tesla
01-30-2008 7:30 PM


Re: take your own advice
tesla writes
quote:
i am willing with proof. no one has proven the laws wrong. and all my observation's say there correct.

Ok, let's start at the beginning. What laws are you referring to? What observations have you made about this and how have they supported your laws?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by tesla, posted 01-30-2008 7:30 PM tesla has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by tesla, posted 01-30-2008 7:49 PM teen4christ has responded

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 2223 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 26 of 54 (452600)
01-30-2008 7:45 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by teen4christ
01-30-2008 7:38 PM


Re: The greatest force of all
With that said, you can take my word for it that there is no such thing as the "great force". I was tempted to think you meant the strong and weak nuclear forces, but even that didn't make much sense.

the balance between the strong nuclear force that binds the nucleus and the the electromagnetic force that controls the movement and actions of the electrons around the nucleus.

it is the strong force that i meant by "g-force" or "great force".

i gave it the wrong name, but insert "strong force" where i have said "great force" and you'll see what i mean.

without the force that binds the nucleus, the atom cannot maintain form.

however, my "theory" about its relevance to gravity is a theory of mine. and so it is a "guess".


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides
This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by teen4christ, posted 01-30-2008 7:38 PM teen4christ has not yet responded

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 2223 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 27 of 54 (452603)
01-30-2008 7:49 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by teen4christ
01-30-2008 7:43 PM


Re: take your own advice
instead of going through it all over again here, just go here:

www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=6&t=750&m=96#94 -->www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=6&t=750&m=96#94">http://www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=6&t=750&m=96#94


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides
This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by teen4christ, posted 01-30-2008 7:43 PM teen4christ has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by teen4christ, posted 01-30-2008 8:11 PM tesla has responded

  
teen4christ
Member (Idle past 3965 days)
Posts: 238
Joined: 01-15-2008


Message 28 of 54 (452613)
01-30-2008 8:11 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by tesla
01-30-2008 7:49 PM


Re: take your own advice
Ok, let's look at each statement.

quote:

Energy and matter cannot be created or destroyed, but changed from form to form.



Good enough.
quote:

No ordered form can exist on top of chaos without direction. (remember direction.)

I think you have a misunderstanding of what chaos is as a scientific term.

Chaos does not mean random. Chaos, at first glance, behaves like randomness but when you plot it out you will see a definite structure. In other words, there literally is order in chaos. If you dispute this point, I will explain further to you about chaotic systems and chaos theory.

quote:
Something cant come from nothing. (it can "appear" to, but impossible to "litteraly" not come from nothing.(because we are)

This is also another point that has been shown false through recent experiments. Within space-time, virtual particles come about and disappear all the time. They appear to behave like real particles.

quote:
This means: although we cant see the energy of God, nothing outside of energy is real. that is reality.

I'm having trouble understanding how you made the leap from your previous point to this.

quote:
Existence had to be established, and all the elements are too ordered to have existed without direction.

Again, what do you mean by "ordered"? Can you define this in some kind of way that doesn't involve human intuition?

quote:
So existence is a synonym for God, in that in the begining, there was intellegent energy that existed singularly, and created all that is based on faith that it was/is.

I'm also having problem seeing how you made the leap from your previous points to this.

quote:
Debate the law. its sound.


I don't think it's even valid, let alone sound. I've disputed most of your premises. You need to show that your premises are true and your conclusion valid before you can state that your argument is sound.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by tesla, posted 01-30-2008 7:49 PM tesla has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by tesla, posted 01-30-2008 8:14 PM teen4christ has responded
 Message 39 by Larni, posted 01-31-2008 8:44 AM teen4christ has responded

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 2223 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 29 of 54 (452616)
01-30-2008 8:14 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by teen4christ
01-30-2008 8:11 PM


Re: take your own advice
i have answered all these questions time and again. if you want to know my answers, click my name and see what i have said.


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides
This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by teen4christ, posted 01-30-2008 8:11 PM teen4christ has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by teen4christ, posted 01-30-2008 8:49 PM tesla has not yet responded

  
teen4christ
Member (Idle past 3965 days)
Posts: 238
Joined: 01-15-2008


Message 30 of 54 (452642)
01-30-2008 8:49 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by tesla
01-30-2008 8:14 PM


Re: take your own advice
Then I trust that other people have tried before. I guess we can move onto another topic.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by tesla, posted 01-30-2008 8:14 PM tesla has not yet responded

  
Prev1
2
34Next
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019