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Author Topic:   Age Correlations and an Old Earth: Version 1 No 3 (formerly Part III)
PurpleYouko
Member
Posts: 714
From: Columbia Missouri
Joined: 11-11-2004


Message 95 of 357 (369925)
12-15-2006 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by johnfolton
12-15-2006 11:43 AM


Re: Nothing Older Than 16,500 Years in Ice Cores?
Dr. Roger C. Wiens never mentioned that the elements in the natural within the earth never undergo fusion.
What does fusion have to do with this?
Fusion is when particles are slammed together so hard that their nuclei become one with each other, noramally resulting in a short lived unstable isotope. How does this relate in any way to Helium difusion?
The helium diffusion out of granite is like sand flowing through an hour glass and has nothing to do with radioactive decay.
Except that we know beyond a shadow of a doubt, through theoretical and laboratory observed data, that elements such as Uranium produce Helium as part of their natural radioactive decay. Every alpha particle ever released in such a reaction eventually becomes Helium. An Alpha particle is, after all, simply a helium nucleus.
Your analogy with an hour glass works fine as long as you accept that there is a big hole in the top of it through which more sand is being poured almost as fast as it leaves.
Oh and just out of interest, it isn't even possible to make Helium from Fusion without a particle accelerator to smash protons and neutrons together at near light speed.
Dating is all about run-of-the-mill decay and a little bit of fission. (I think we covered spontaneous fision and subsequent neutron reactions pretty well before) Fusion has absolutely nothing to do with it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by johnfolton, posted 12-15-2006 11:43 AM johnfolton has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by johnfolton, posted 12-15-2006 2:39 PM PurpleYouko has replied

PurpleYouko
Member
Posts: 714
From: Columbia Missouri
Joined: 11-11-2004


Message 97 of 357 (369960)
12-15-2006 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by johnfolton
12-15-2006 2:39 PM


Re: Nothing Older Than 16,500 Years in Ice Cores?
I agree Dating is all about run-of-the-mill decay since the elements formed. We really are clueless to the original parent elements when the earth was formed but the helium trapped when the granites formed is one of the methods creationists use to date not the age of the elements but the age of the earth.
Except that Helium isn't trapped when the granite forms. It is free to move in and out since there will not be any pressure differential between "in" and "out" of any given crystal.
The argument, as far as I can tell, (please correct me if i have this wrong. I haven'r followed it in great detail)is that the RATE project stated that the rate of helium diffusion from an individual Zircon crystal could be used to date it and that it is more reliable than the U/Pb ratio in the same crystal.
Since we know (from laboratory experiments) that zircon crystals chemically reject the presence of Pb and actively accept Uranium while they are crystalizing, that means that at the time of formation of the crystal there was zero lead in it so any lead now in it must have gotten there later. The only possible source is the decay of the Uranium, which is also known (from laboratory experiments) to happen. The pathway is exceedingly well documented.
I agree with you that we don't know the chemical makeup of much of anything at the time the earth was first formed but we certainly do know with total certainty that when that Zircon crystal formed, it contained zero lead. there are no correction equations here. No assumptions. just the absolute fact that Zircon formation utterly rejects Lead.
What we don't know is how much Helium it had at that time. How much was dissolved in the liquid magma?
What we don't know is how much Helium got into it afterward or moved out later or any number of other details.
What we do also know is that Helium does form (in quite high quantities) as a by-product of the uranium decay series.
Oh and one more thing we DO know pretty well is the way that gas diffusion behaves at different pressures. It is Chemistry 101 gas laws.
We also know that you cannot compress the inter-atomic distances between the atoms in rock and since those are the pathways that very light gasses travel, it means that we know that the rate of diffusion is independent of pressure under these conditions since there literally isn't any pressure of the type that would effect gasses in the rock.
remember we aren't talking about gas pressures here. That would effect diffusion rates for sure. We are talking about compression pressures which are a different thing entirely.
The experiment that you say hasn't been done, hasn't been done for a reason. We already know the answer from myriads of other similar experiments and observations. Doing an experiment to measure diffusion rates of helium through underground rock would be a little akin to holding your head underwater and seeing if you can breathe still. Pointless and a complete waste of time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by johnfolton, posted 12-15-2006 2:39 PM johnfolton has replied

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 Message 98 by johnfolton, posted 12-15-2006 7:20 PM PurpleYouko has not replied

PurpleYouko
Member
Posts: 714
From: Columbia Missouri
Joined: 11-11-2004


Message 225 of 357 (431128)
10-29-2007 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 224 by Percy
10-29-2007 1:17 PM


Re: Siberia's Massive Peat deposits all C-14 dating young!
Tell me about it.
I'm in the middle of Missouri on the same latitude as Cyprus and the northern part of the Sahara dessert.
We typically get winters where the temperature occasionally falls as low as -15 Fahrenheit (-26 Celsius)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 224 by Percy, posted 10-29-2007 1:17 PM Percy has not replied

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