For whatever - your insult, and radioisotope dating

God had already created sediments so the plant life would have a place to grow, even genesis chapter 1, says God caused the plants to come forth from the earth, meaning they couldn't of grown from solid rock, etc...The bible also says when the 7th angel pours out his vial, there will be an earthquake, so great that has not been since man was on the earth, etc...meaning the flood didn't shake the earth as this earthquake shook the earth, it says it will gain the bottomless pit, sounds a lot like your asteroid, etc...Is not the crack that went around the world the basis of the hydroplate theory, and the bibles assertion that the fountains of the deep were opened, check Walts site on the hydroplate theory, etc...I bought a bit of property, it seemed a bit mucky in the spring, so I asked the farmer about it, he said he used to farm it, but in the spring you dare not walk on it, he said he once went over his waist in the clays, said the particles get suspended, this analogy, perhaps dino, got sucked down under as the waters rained down, and as the waters pressed dino below the iridium layer, etc...When you think about it, quick sand, particle settling with undercurrents, it makes perfect sense, given Walts has a ph D in mechanical engineering from MIT, he even gave you those jars filled with sand showing how sediments really straitfy, etc...Were the clams found in the closed position, if so they would be more likely to float higher, etc...The birds and trees were likely carried up by currents, actually birds would of seeked the trees, even small mammals, till they got carried upward by the currents, not getting bogged down in the mud, with all the debris floating trees would bring, just look to Mt. St. Helens, the trees floated for years, unless they were buried by the lateral mud flows, though its interesting that dino, likely was sucked down, and the trees probably floated out up of the earth, etc...[This message has been edited by whatever, 01-08-2004]

Whatever, Oh, so God put the Mesozoic fossils & earlier in place himself? Well why didn't you just come out & say so? It would have saved me a lot of time if you'd just said 11/12ths of the geologic column & it's fossils were put there by magic.That's all the dinosaurs & everything before that, meaning they never actually existed as organisms at all. He then created a flood that would order fossils & the remainder of the geologic column radiometrically with the same fossil trends as the ones he planted in pre-flood sediments, right?This raises a more serious question about Gods honesty, why would he deliberately put fossils that look like living things that have never been seen to live in rock himself, look exactly like organisms that DID exist but have never been seen? To fool us? Well, you, anyway. Except asteroids don't come out of vials. That & there are no such thing as angels, or bottomless pits. Sounds more like the Brothers Grimm. In a word, no. There is no single "crack" that goes around the earth. Why are you asking me, anyway? It's your assertion, don't you check your facts before posting? Just produce the evidence rather than the assertion & I'll concede the point, until then I will do no such thing. Bullshit. As you should have learned, you don't sink in liquefied sediments. Nope, it makes no sense at all, & is falsified by observation. Both, that's screwed you, hasn't it? Oh dear, not again. You forget your birds are found with the sauropods that you think sunk through the Iridium layer, or did you forget? Did you also forget that seed fern trees are also found no higher than the Jurassic which by coincidence is where those mighty sauropods are found, which by coincidence is where small mammals are found, which by coincidence is where those trees that float for years are found..........Doh! Failed again.Don't you find it odd that the earliest sauropods are found in the Jurassic & you agree would sink, yet the earliest conifers are found way, way beneath them in the Carboniferous but you think float "for years"? That's about 160 million years earlier in absolute terms. To put it in perspective, trees are found 2.5 times deeper in the geologic column than the K-T boundary (when the last dinosaurs vanished) is to us. But hang on, trees float for "years". Look at Spirit Lake, non?Any explanation you possibly give within a flood paradigm I can instantly falsify. Don't you see how ridiculous all this crap is? Now, once more for the supremely evasive, please address the issues in this post, point by point as I raise them.Thank you.Mark

---

"Physical Reality of Matchette’s EVOLUTIONARY zero-atom-unit in a transcendental c/e illusion" - Brad McFall

Whatever,
I bought a bit of property, it seemed a bit mucky in the spring, so I asked the farmer about it, he said he used to farm it, but in the spring you dare not walk on it, he said he once went over his waist in the clays, said the particles get suspended, this analogy, perhaps dino, got sucked down under as the waters rained down, and as the waters pressed dino below the iridium layer, etc...mark24,
Bullshit. As you should have learned, you don't sink in liquefied sediments.Whatever,
But you do sink when liquefaction takes place, Walt explained the waters rising up from the sediments, caused by the tidal currents, so you think sediments compact quickly when you have undertidal currents, etc...likely explaining how the sediments settled lower in the Jurasic layer, I really didn't want to argue about the flood sorting, figured it was a pandoras box, for all I know your iridium layers were caused by the flood itself, forming your T-K boundary, the asteroid could of been much deeper, explaining the fossil record being lower in the sediment record, whatever, thought the precambrian layer was pretty much devoid of life, supporting the biblical account that life came onto the scene fully formed, you know the missing transitional fossils, in the sediments below the jurassic layers, in the precambrian etc...P.S. The sediment layers could of happened via Walt Browns, tidal liquefaction, likely even the earth was shaking, if the fountains of the deep were erupting, causing fossils to float deeper into the pre-flood sediment layers, etc...The trees that floated up out of the earth, floated in mass to all the fossil grave yards all over the earth, only a world flood could of caused such mass graves, and then covered them with a layer of sediment as the waters washed off the earth, etc...Just for your information, the bottomless pit is the center of the earth, so the star(asteroid)that will hit the earth will penetrate trough the tecktonic plates to the bottomless pit, technically, the bottom of the pit is the center of the earth, hence its called the bottomless pit, etc...[This message has been edited by whatever, 01-08-2004]

Friends, don't you think that it's about time to stop feeding this troll? It doesn't seem to mind being butted by the Very Damn Large Billy Goat Gruff, and just keeps eating all we toss it, though it regurgitates most of it.Let's stop. DNFTT.

I thought the same thing a long time ago. It is, even for some of our visitors here, a pretty amusing example of ignorance clung too. I think he might actually think he has something to say but I do have to agree that is starting to get less likely. What is more likely that the ignorance stems from an inability to read.

---

Common sense isn't

Hi. I'm Zephyr. Been watching for a while but really busy. A few points:

quote:

---

But you do sink when liquefaction takes place, Walt explained the waters rising up from the sediments, caused by the tidal currents, so you think sediments compact quickly when you have undertidal currents, etc...likely explaining how the sediments settled lower in the Jurasic layer, I really didn't want to argue about the flood sorting, figured it was a pandoras box, for all I know your iridium layers were caused by the flood itself, forming your T-K boundary, the asteroid could of been much deeper, explaining the fossil record being lower in the sediment record, whatever, thought the precambrian layer was pretty much devoid of life, supporting the biblical account that life came onto the scene fully formed, you know the missing transitional fossils, in the sediments below the jurassic layers, in the precambrian etc...

---

The Precambrian has fossils in it. The boundary was originally set at the oldest rocks where we had found life. Since then, scientists have found very small and simple life forms known as "bacteria" (maybe you've heard of them?) in the Precambrian, and it was rather inconvenient to move the boundary. The rest of your hideous run-on sentence I'll leave for others to decipher.

quote:

---

P.S. The sediment layers could of happened via Walt Browns, tidal liquefaction, likely even the earth was shaking, if the fountains of the deep were erupting, causing fossils to float deeper into the pre-flood sediment layers, etc...

---

"coulda" is the best you can usually get from a creationist: piles of obfuscation and possibilities. Why don't you look at the reasonable and well-supported explanations offered by actual scientists, and learn them well enough to actually understand them, before you discard them outright?

quote:

---

The trees that floated up out of the earth, floated in mass to all the fossil grave yards all over the earth, only a world flood could of caused such mass graves, and then covered them with a layer of sediment as the waters washed off the earth, etc...

---

NO! They are buried in many fossil layers! Can you even point to a single one of the "mass graves" you claim exist?As has been pointed out to you, trees have been around for many millions of years and are divided among strata according to characteristics other than their basic size, shape, and density. Their worldwide distribution has nothing to do with hydrodynamic sorting or any global water movement.

quote:

---

Just for your information, the bottomless pit is the center of the earth, so the star(asteroid)that will hit the earth will penetrate trough the tecktonic plates to the bottomless pit, technically, the bottom of the pit is the center of the earth, hence its called the bottomless pit, etc...

---

Thus splattering the earth all over space.Asteroids that hit the earth hard enough to drastically change the climate and kill nearly everything alive still barely get into the crust. To penetrate all the way to the core (through thousands of miles of rock and solid/liquid metal) with a chunk of rock, the size and speed required of the meteor would dictate that you'd pretty much have to smash the planet apart with it. Kinda hard for the rest of your apocalyptic scenario to play out thereafter, don't you think?Check out this site: http://www.meteoritearticles.com/znp07031928.html
I offer it both as an illustration (compare the size of the crater and the devastation implied by the geologic evidence to the depth of penetration indicated by drilling) and just because Meteor Crater is an amazing sight to see. If you haven't been there, I highly recommend it.

I don't think he realizes how very confused and self-contradictory his story is. Walt absolutely depends on confusion in the name of God for his following.CheersJoe Meert

zephyr, The rocky mountain coal fields are massive, only a world flood could of formed them, bacteria are not a transitional fossil, it is obvious that the evidence in your fossil record, is that life came unto the scene fully formed, etc...P.S. The bible says this star(meaning an asteroid or a comet)will be given a key to the bottomless pit, and the earth will shake as it has not shaken since man was on the face of the earth. Interestingly, even before Newton discovered gravity the bible talked about the bottomless pit, now we know it is a literal place, but to be given a key to this pit, sounds like even the atmosphere will be rolled back, like what they believed happened in the tungsla explosion, and that was believe to of happened in the upper atmosphere, not the inner earth, etc...I don't see any reason to post anymore on this thread, while I don't have all the answers, liquefication, more completely explains the biblical flood, and while I can not prove CUA is being formed in the sediments, Snellings diamonds infer that its happens, bringing the PA and AA dating methods under a new light, given the very basalts your dating contain thorium, with carbon dioxide in the water leaching into the sediments, that could very well be converting argon gas into a stable compound explaining quite easily how the very sediment sorting happened not millions of years, but from a 40 day world flood, etc...http://www.acs.ohio-state.edu/...ws/archive/noblegaspics.htmYour also finding argon gas being released in the off gases of oil wells, found in coal mines, etc...Snelling is right argon gas is pressing up from the earth,and the diamond absorbed excess argon, if argon is believed released when basalt melts, then its a pretty weak bond in the basalt your dating, its should be obvious that the argon in the atmosphere is related to the argon gas being released, though it appears some sort of bond traps it in the rock, suspect thorium 232, which is being used in place of uranium in nucleur reactors, etc...is responsible, though its interesting that argon gas is part of the off gases in oil wells, etc...Thanks for giving me a hard time, enjoyed it tremendously,Bye,The Rubber Duck[This message has been edited by whatever, 01-09-2004]

quote:

---

I don't see any reason to post anymore on this thread, while I don't have all the answers,

---

No! Say it ain't so...

quote:

---

...liquefication, more completely explains the biblical flood,

---

So how did the fossils survive liquifaction?

quote:

---

... and while I can not prove CUA is being formed in the sediments, Snellings diamonds infer that its happens, bringing the PA and AA dating methods under a new light, given the very basalts your dating contain thorium, with carbon dioxide in the water leaching into the sediments, that could very well be converting argon gas into a stable compound explaining quite easily how the very sediment sorting happened not millions of years, but from a 40 day world flood, etc...

---

You are reaching here. You cannot 'prove' anything and yet you expect your opposition to do so, no doubt.

quote:

---

zephyr, The rocky mountain coal fields are massive, only a world flood could of formed them, bacteria are not a transitional fossil, it is obvious that the evidence in your fossil record, is that life came unto the scene fully formed, etc...

---

hahahaha! I said nothing of transitional fossils. I merely noted that the earliest "life" observed in the fossil record is the simplest known (apart from viruses, whose status as "life" is debated). The point was that there was life in the Precambrian and that it was the simplest kind we could expect to locate in fossil form. You did nothing to counter this point

quote:

---

P.S. The bible says this star will be given a key to the bottomless pit, and the earth will shake as it has not shaken since man was on the face of the earth.

---

On a side note, the core of the earth could hardly be called a bottomless pit. You come out on the other side if you go deep enough. But, since we know the ancient Hebrews thought the earth was flat, their mistake is understandable.

quote:

---

Interestingly, even before Newton discovered gravity the bible talked about the bottomless pit, now we know it is a literal place,

---

Yeah, the center of a spher?

quote:

---

but to be given a key to this pit, sounds like even the atmosphere will be rolled back, like what they believed happened in the tungsla explosion, and that was believe to of happened in the upper atmosphere, not the inner earth, etc...

---

A meteor exploded in the atmosphere. The atmosphere stayed where it was.*yawn*Anything other irrelevant run-on sentences for me?

quote:

---

I don't see any reason to post anymore on this thread, while I don't have all the answers, liquefication, more completely explains the biblical flood, and while I can not prove CUA is being formed in the sediments, Snellings diamonds infer that its happens, bringing the PA and AA dating methods under a new light, given the very basalts your dating contain thorium, with carbon dioxide in the water leaching into the sediments, that could very well be converting argon gas into a stable compound explaining quite easily how the very sediment sorting happened not millions of years, but from a 40 day world flood, etc...

---

You haven't proved a damned thing to anyone but yourself. Oh wait... you proved that it is possible to replace periods with commas and stretch one poor, abused sentence into an entire page of pseudoscientific speculation.Argon gas does not form compounds under any known conditions. Hydrodynamic sorting could not under any circumstances sort ferns from flowering plants in the way the fossil record has. Liquefaction does not explain anything. The biblical flood is not supported by geology, and early CREATIONISTS were the first to realize this. Your illusions are still intact, for which reason I am truly sad that you claim to be departing. If you had any desire to learn here (as might be expected of a newcomer with an obvious lack of knowledge) then it remains utterly unfulfilled. Bye....

Whatever, Now, once more for the supremely evasive, please address the issues in this post, point by point as I raise them.Please make EVERY ANSWER YOU GIVE CONSISTENT WITH EVERY OTHER ANSWER YOU GIVE. Thus far you have hopelessly fairytaled your way through this debate. A bottomless pit that has a bottom. What a prick.The reason I bother formulating replies to creationists like you is to show the lurkers the fundamental dishonesty creationists are capable of. Their shameless evasiveness, & their blatant double standards. Keep it coming, mate, I am happy to show the world the intellectual capacity (& lack thereof) & dishonesty of alleged christians until the cows come home.Mark[This message has been edited by mark24, 01-09-2004]

Whatever, You mean something that has to have in the order of eighty times the mass of Jupiter in order to produce the requisite pressures to start nuclear fusion, & therefore be considered a star, is going to hit the earth & the only evidence of this is a crater in the Yucatan penisula, some shocked quartz, scattered tektites, & an Iridium spike? Per-lease!The earth would be gone if such a thing happened. The star wouldn't even slow down.Mark

---

"Physical Reality of Matchette’s EVOLUTIONARY zero-atom-unit in a transcendental c/e illusion" - Brad McFall

"I don't see any reason to post anymore on this thread, while I don't have all the answers"JM: Maybe now you'll have some time to actually formulate your thoughts into a coherent package. While I am not in favor of partial birth abortion, this is one thread where I would have turned my head the other way should the administrator decided to act in such a manner.CheersJoe Meert

Well, it wasn't totally pointless. I hadn't seen that claim about Melvin Cook before, and so I learned something.

JonF,I guess never say never, well, whatever, one last post, I really don't have much else to say about the dating methods, this just seemed too appropriate, glad you learned something, etc...Just thought it interesting that Ar40 Ar36 might be diffusing into rocks, explaining when dating known rocks that have had atmospheric Ar40 Ar36 diffused makes Ar/Ar dating appear to be accurate, in dating known rocks of known age, however, argon diffusion, is an issue of great concern, for in the earth it would change the ratio of Ar40 Ar36, for in the inner earth the Ar40 Ar36 ratio is as much as 20,000 times higher, its this diffusion they are concerned, it would make the rocks appear older!P.S. Interesting lecture, diffusion Ar40 Ar36 is cause of great concern, in the dating of the sediments, etc... even so, it sure would be interesting if the argon off gases from the oil wells is Ar40 Ar39 or Ar40 Ar36, etc...http://www.geo.cornell.edu/...6notes03/656%2003Lecture06.pdf.[This message has been edited by whatever, 01-10-2004]