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Author Topic:   Age Correlations and An Old Earth, Version 2 No 1
OS
Member (Idle past 3530 days)
Posts: 67
Joined: 06-22-2014


Message 342 of 1498 (730525)
06-28-2014 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 341 by RAZD
06-28-2014 6:29 PM


Curiously, not one of those is 40Ar ...
It is probably because no one has tried it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 341 by RAZD, posted 06-28-2014 6:29 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
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OS
Member (Idle past 3530 days)
Posts: 67
Joined: 06-22-2014


Message 344 of 1498 (730527)
06-28-2014 6:56 PM
Reply to: Message 343 by NoNukes
06-28-2014 6:42 PM


NoNukes writes:
Which implies nothing at all about Ar40. It turns out that Ar40 is composed of exactly the same nucleons as in 10 alpha particles. As a general rule, the lower weight nuclei composed in such a way are unusually stable isotopes. Examples C12, N14, O16 and Neon 20 are all stable. Above a certain atomic number, electrostatic repulsive forces become too great and more neutrons are needed to produce other forces to make a stable nucleus.
But what do cold temperatures do to those forces? Extreme cold makes metal brittle, for example.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 343 by NoNukes, posted 06-28-2014 6:42 PM NoNukes has replied

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OS
Member (Idle past 3530 days)
Posts: 67
Joined: 06-22-2014


Message 350 of 1498 (730534)
06-28-2014 8:19 PM
Reply to: Message 348 by Coragyps
06-28-2014 7:55 PM


I think that it would have depend on a lot things which we don't know with certainty. Cooling takes more energy, and using liquid hydrogen as a proton source might work. (But it would be under these conditions.) I also need to know if K-ar and ar-K with atomic number 39 can work both ways.
Dyson is low-powered, but I don't which way you applied it. If Ar-K is more normal, then it would take less power. K-Ar is more likely with other atomic numbers.
Then there is what NoNukes say about Ar-40 being a 10 size alpha particle. Does this make a difference?
I can't solve these problems. I know someone who can, but unfortunately his past is too checkered for him to go public with it.
Edited by OS, : No reason given.
Edited by OS, : Need to specify conditions.

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OS
Member (Idle past 3530 days)
Posts: 67
Joined: 06-22-2014


Message 351 of 1498 (730535)
06-28-2014 8:28 PM
Reply to: Message 349 by RAZD
06-28-2014 8:19 PM


Re: Tree rings and reality
My general impressions of dendrochronology is that it is just stupid. You can't find the age of a tree by counting rings, but you can find the half-life of C-14 with a Geiger counter. And thus you carbon date the tree instead.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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OS
Member (Idle past 3530 days)
Posts: 67
Joined: 06-22-2014


Message 357 of 1498 (730541)
06-28-2014 8:52 PM
Reply to: Message 354 by RAZD
06-28-2014 8:44 PM


Re: Tree rings and reality
Tree rings don't tell you how old a tree is? They spread out with age. Sorry, but that one is true.
Secondly, you made the mistake of saying a Geiger counter is underpowered for finding C-14's half-life. Shame on you.
So what is the problem with carbon dating tree dust. This has been done to the dead sea scrolls.
Do you know what animal life does to C-14 by the way?

This message is a reply to:
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OS
Member (Idle past 3530 days)
Posts: 67
Joined: 06-22-2014


Message 360 of 1498 (730545)
06-28-2014 9:14 PM
Reply to: Message 358 by Coyote
06-28-2014 8:57 PM


Re: Tree rings and reality
No, my knowledge about it comes from a medical pdf, and some physics stuff which is in depth enough. I know that the human body actively expels Carbon-14, but I can't find the documentation. If it ia anything to you, I don't believe it proves the age of the earth, or of anything other than a piece of paper.
Edited by OS, : No reason given.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 361 by Coyote, posted 06-28-2014 9:26 PM OS has replied
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 Message 370 by NoNukes, posted 06-28-2014 11:56 PM OS has replied

  
OS
Member (Idle past 3530 days)
Posts: 67
Joined: 06-22-2014


Message 362 of 1498 (730547)
06-28-2014 9:29 PM
Reply to: Message 361 by Coyote
06-28-2014 9:26 PM


Re: Tree rings and reality
It doesn't change the isotope, but it does expel it. Thus it has a body half life. I know by Isotopic Labeling. Carbon-14 is put into the body and used with an MRI.
Edited by OS, : No reason given.

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OS
Member (Idle past 3530 days)
Posts: 67
Joined: 06-22-2014


Message 365 of 1498 (730550)
06-28-2014 9:37 PM


I might be thinking fractionalization. I know Carbon-14 doesn't like water either.

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OS
Member (Idle past 3530 days)
Posts: 67
Joined: 06-22-2014


Message 371 of 1498 (730560)
06-29-2014 1:16 AM
Reply to: Message 370 by NoNukes
06-28-2014 11:56 PM


Re: Tree rings and reality
The human body does not distinguish between C-14 and C-12.
Only in that, it doesn't seem to get rid of Carbon-14; I am glad I can't find that PDF, because it makes arguing how it is poisonous easier.
I have yet to acknowledge accurately dated corpses though. Is it harder to gauge the carbon level of a once live thing? Then there is the issue of 12,000 years and everything has decayed. Exponential decay exaggerates a lot of ages. Linear decay would be a better approach.

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OS
Member (Idle past 3530 days)
Posts: 67
Joined: 06-22-2014


Message 381 of 1498 (730587)
06-29-2014 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 375 by JonF
06-29-2014 9:59 AM


JonF writes:
That's making a claim that it is possible.
It isn't.
It hasn't been tried, especially with proton bombardment. How would you know then?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 375 by JonF, posted 06-29-2014 9:59 AM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
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OS
Member (Idle past 3530 days)
Posts: 67
Joined: 06-22-2014


Message 382 of 1498 (730588)
06-29-2014 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 374 by RAZD
06-29-2014 6:32 AM


Re: amusement value
RAZD writes:
Except that we KNOW that exponential decay matches the evidence and linear decay doesn't.
No, you really don't. It is a thermodynamic calculation, and there is nothing to suggest isotopic concentrations don't have full lives.

This message is a reply to:
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OS
Member (Idle past 3530 days)
Posts: 67
Joined: 06-22-2014


Message 386 of 1498 (730594)
06-29-2014 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 385 by Coyote
06-29-2014 11:25 AM


Re: Have you researched?
OS -- have you researched isotropic fractionation and the reservoir effect, as I suggested in previous posts?
I think this would clear up a few (of many) misconceptions.
Yes, it has helped, but now I don't have good reason to say dating dinosaur bones with the method is terrible. I has noting to do with the range of the method-- I think.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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OS
Member (Idle past 3530 days)
Posts: 67
Joined: 06-22-2014


Message 388 of 1498 (730598)
06-29-2014 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 383 by Coragyps
06-29-2014 11:17 AM


I thought not.
You thought wrong. I have done everything I can think of so far, but there are few articles on it. Doing this is quite uncommon. ??

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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OS
Member (Idle past 3530 days)
Posts: 67
Joined: 06-22-2014


Message 393 of 1498 (730603)
06-29-2014 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 387 by Coyote
06-29-2014 11:48 AM


Re: Have you researched?
I think it has more to do with bodily processes, but I am thinking I confused myself about results from corpses and wood.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 387 by Coyote, posted 06-29-2014 11:48 AM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
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OS
Member (Idle past 3530 days)
Posts: 67
Joined: 06-22-2014


Message 395 of 1498 (730606)
06-29-2014 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 392 by JonF
06-29-2014 12:06 PM


Another characteristic of nutjobs is never admitting error. You claimed you never said 40Ar could be turned into 40K;
Notice I didn't say that, but implied it. This is all shown by your quotes.
Now you're saying that it's likely proton bombardment is necessary?
Ar-40 is a stable isotope. I don't think it would be stupid to try, but it would be complicated, an it might not be as successful as with other Argon isotopes.
Edited by OS, : No reason given.

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Replies to this message:
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