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Author Topic:   Age Correlations and An Old Earth, Version 2 No 1
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7710
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 1336 of 1381 (877777)
06-21-2020 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1334 by dad
06-21-2020 2:48 PM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
dad writes:

Why? Easy. I think that the so called sates are bogus. The reasons for the dates and the basis for them is totally belief based.

I'm not asking you to accept the evidence, we know you dismiss it without reading or understanding it. I'm asking you a different question.

The world's scientists in multiple disciples for 200 years have amassed an enormous quantity of evidence that has proven beyond doubt that the earth is old. That evidence exists. My question is why god would plant all this evidence that convinces all those scientists?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1334 by dad, posted 06-21-2020 2:48 PM dad has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1338 by dad, posted 06-21-2020 11:50 PM Tangle has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18322
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 1337 of 1381 (877788)
06-21-2020 9:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1333 by dad
06-21-2020 2:46 PM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
dad writes:

When a question is asked about the unknown the real default is 'I don't know'.


That default wouldn't be very useful. Science has to have something to start from. Call it a hypothesis if you prefer. In any case, we can not start by proposing that conditions were somehow different in the past.

dad writes:

The conclusion based on beliefs is not knowledge, fact or real science.


It isn't based on belief. It's based on the facts as we know them today. It's your belief that conditions were somehow different in the past, though you have no facts to support that belief. Hence, it is your position that is not science.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1333 by dad, posted 06-21-2020 2:46 PM dad has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1339 by dad, posted 06-21-2020 11:52 PM ringo has responded

  
dad
Member
Posts: 181
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1338 of 1381 (877799)
06-21-2020 11:50 PM
Reply to: Message 1336 by Tangle
06-21-2020 5:19 PM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
And I am not asking you to accept the evidence...only to stop pretending you have anything but beliefs. No one has amassed a shred of evidence for your claims of old ages etc. You have plastered beliefs over evidences. Big difference.

Edited by dad, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1336 by Tangle, posted 06-21-2020 5:19 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1342 by Tangle, posted 06-22-2020 2:57 AM dad has responded

  
dad
Member
Posts: 181
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1339 of 1381 (877800)
06-21-2020 11:52 PM
Reply to: Message 1337 by ringo
06-21-2020 9:19 PM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
No belief is useful when it comes to origin issues. There is no useful application for origin claims of science. If you claim that a same nature on the earth is fact based then go ahead and show us the facts. You have none. Instead we see a desperate attempt to shift the burden of proof.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1337 by ringo, posted 06-21-2020 9:19 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1343 by ringo, posted 06-22-2020 10:49 AM dad has responded

  
dad
Member
Posts: 181
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1340 of 1381 (877801)
06-21-2020 11:55 PM
Reply to: Message 1335 by AZPaul3
06-21-2020 3:04 PM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
No matter how much weight you imagine your lack of evidence has, it remains a lack of evidence. From my unbiased and intellectually honest perspective your admitted lack of evidence is worthless and appalling.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1335 by AZPaul3, posted 06-21-2020 3:04 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1341 by AZPaul3, posted 06-22-2020 1:01 AM dad has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5118
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 1341 of 1381 (877805)
06-22-2020 1:01 AM
Reply to: Message 1340 by dad
06-21-2020 11:55 PM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
You still haven't figured out how something that isn't there could be as significant as something that is. That's ok. Intellect is not in everyone's skill set.

Still, a lack of evidence that "the nature" changed sometime in the past is significant in doubting that such a change happened. So, whether you care to recognize it or not, there is a BIG data point against your contention that "the nature" did change enough to effect tree ring growth thousands of years ago.

You do remember this argument you put forward some time ago, right?

Well, now it's your turn.

Where is your evidence tree ring growth was in any way altered by this change in nature thousands of years ago?


Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1340 by dad, posted 06-21-2020 11:55 PM dad has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1344 by dad, posted 06-28-2020 4:01 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7710
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 1342 of 1381 (877808)
06-22-2020 2:57 AM
Reply to: Message 1338 by dad
06-21-2020 11:50 PM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
dad writes:

No one has amassed a shred of evidence for your claims of old ages etc.

Look dad, denying that the evidence means what science says it means is different from denying that evidence exists at all.

We can very easily present the evidence that has lead every branch of science to conclude that the universe is old, if you deny that that evidence exists you are denying easily provable reality.

So, again, why would your god want to trick us like that?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1338 by dad, posted 06-21-2020 11:50 PM dad has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1345 by dad, posted 06-28-2020 4:03 PM Tangle has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18322
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


(1)
Message 1343 of 1381 (877824)
06-22-2020 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 1339 by dad
06-21-2020 11:52 PM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
dad writes:

If you claim that a same nature on the earth is fact based then go ahead and show us the facts.


You have it backwards. If you think something has changed, you are the one who has to back up your idea with facts. If you think horses had eight legs in Napoleon's day, you are the one who has to back up that claim. As long as we have no evidence of a change, the rational conclusion is that horses have always had four legs.

dad writes:

Instead we see a desperate attempt to shift the burden of proof.


Yes indeed, you are trying to shift the burden of proof. You're not fooling anybody.

dad writes:

There is no useful application for origin claims of science.


Tell that to a petroleum engineer. They get along pretty well working with the idea that those rocks are old.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1339 by dad, posted 06-21-2020 11:52 PM dad has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1346 by dad, posted 06-28-2020 4:04 PM ringo has responded

  
dad
Member
Posts: 181
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1344 of 1381 (878277)
06-28-2020 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 1341 by AZPaul3
06-22-2020 1:01 AM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
quote:
Still, a lack of evidence that "the nature" changed sometime in the past is significant in doubting that such a change happened.

Still, a lack of evidence that "the nature" never changed sometime in the past is significant in doubting that such a change never happened.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1341 by AZPaul3, posted 06-22-2020 1:01 AM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1352 by AZPaul3, posted 06-28-2020 7:27 PM dad has responded

  
dad
Member
Posts: 181
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1345 of 1381 (878278)
06-28-2020 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1342 by Tangle
06-22-2020 2:57 AM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
And I can easily show that what you imagined to be evidences were actually beliefs. What we need here is fact and real knowledge and science, not political reinvent word games.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1342 by Tangle, posted 06-22-2020 2:57 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1348 by Tangle, posted 06-28-2020 4:53 PM dad has responded

  
dad
Member
Posts: 181
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1346 of 1381 (878279)
06-28-2020 4:04 PM
Reply to: Message 1343 by ringo
06-22-2020 10:49 AM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
You have it all wrong. If you claim anything as science you need real evidence and support. If I claim we do not know, I am off the hook.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1343 by ringo, posted 06-22-2020 10:49 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1347 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-28-2020 4:38 PM dad has responded
 Message 1365 by ringo, posted 06-29-2020 11:47 AM dad has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2371
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


(2)
Message 1347 of 1381 (878284)
06-28-2020 4:38 PM
Reply to: Message 1346 by dad
06-28-2020 4:04 PM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
If you claim anything as science you need real evidence and support.

And that real evidence is what this thread is about and it was presented in gargantuan, mountainous piles. You would know that if you read and understood this thread, but I don't expect that to happen.

The evidence presented here stands un-refuted, by anyone, including you.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1346 by dad, posted 06-28-2020 4:04 PM dad has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1349 by dad, posted 06-28-2020 7:17 PM Tanypteryx has responded
 Message 1350 by dad, posted 06-28-2020 7:20 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7710
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 1348 of 1381 (878285)
06-28-2020 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 1345 by dad
06-28-2020 4:03 PM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
dad writes:

And I can easily show that what you imagined to be evidences were actually beliefs. What we need here is fact and real knowledge and science, not political reinvent word games.

Ok, I'll try again.

Let's say that hundreds of thousands of scientists for a couple of hundred years are all wrong and what they call evidence is what you call beliefs. All those evolutionary biologists, palaeontologists, radio physicists, astrophysicists, molecular biologists, geologists etc etc, all believe that what are looking at shows that the earth is old.

And all that evidence is there - the fossils, the speed of light, the rocks, the rings, the varves, the ice cores, the radio carbon and so on. You can go and look at it yourself. But fine, let's say it's all belief.

My question is, why has god made it so that all those people are fooled by the evidence that they see?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1345 by dad, posted 06-28-2020 4:03 PM dad has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1351 by dad, posted 06-28-2020 7:23 PM Tangle has responded

  
dad
Member
Posts: 181
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1349 of 1381 (878291)
06-28-2020 7:17 PM
Reply to: Message 1347 by Tanypteryx
06-28-2020 4:38 PM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
I have seen only belief based claims here that have falsely been labelled evidence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1347 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-28-2020 4:38 PM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1353 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-28-2020 7:41 PM dad has responded

  
dad
Member
Posts: 181
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1350 of 1381 (878292)
06-28-2020 7:20 PM
Reply to: Message 1347 by Tanypteryx
06-28-2020 4:38 PM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
You would know that the piles are belief based piles if you comprehended the thread. From radiometric decay in nature in the past, to using nature of today in determine the time trees used to grow, and ad infinitum. When so called science looks to the universe we see a variation of the same thing, they imagine that space and time that we see here exists all over. In all ways and in every single facet of science that deals in origin issues we see the same thing, and nothing but the same thing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1347 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-28-2020 4:38 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

  
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