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Author Topic:   Age Correlations and An Old Earth, Version 2 No 1
dad
Member
Posts: 181
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1351 of 1381 (878293)
06-28-2020 7:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1348 by Tangle
06-28-2020 4:53 PM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
I am not fooled, so speak for yourself! The speed of light has only been clocked in this area of the solar system. Period. If you dispute that, then show us how you would clock movements from stars or objects in deep space, as to speed? Ha.
All you know is fishbowl speed limits, basically.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1348 by Tangle, posted 06-28-2020 4:53 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1358 by JonF, posted 06-28-2020 9:10 PM dad has responded
 Message 1363 by Tangle, posted 06-29-2020 2:50 AM dad has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5118
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 1352 of 1381 (878295)
06-28-2020 7:27 PM
Reply to: Message 1344 by dad
06-28-2020 4:01 PM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
Still, a lack of evidence that "the nature" never changed sometime in the past is significant ...

That's just the point, dad. There is plenty of evidence that "the nature" never changed sometime in the past. The effects and results of natures consistent operation in the past is precisely what we expect it to be. There are no ... as in none ... effects or results that differed in the past from the same operations of nature we see today.

If nature changed her processes 10 thousand years ago or 100 million years ago or whenever, we would see the differences. We don't. That lack of evidence of a change says it didn't change.

No one can say nature operated different in the past from the way it operates now. You have no evidence of a change because there isn't any. That lack of evidence for a change is because it did not change. Without evidence you have nothing.

Just like your creation myth, your talking snake and your idiot flud, some change in "the nature" a long time ago did not happen.


Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1344 by dad, posted 06-28-2020 4:01 PM dad has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1356 by dad, posted 06-28-2020 7:52 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2371
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 1353 of 1381 (878298)
06-28-2020 7:41 PM
Reply to: Message 1349 by dad
06-28-2020 7:17 PM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
dad writes:

I have seen only belief based claims here that have falsely been labelled evidence.

OK, as I suspected neither read nor understood.

What a boring universe you live in.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1349 by dad, posted 06-28-2020 7:17 PM dad has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1354 by dad, posted 06-28-2020 7:43 PM Tanypteryx has responded

  
dad
Member
Posts: 181
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1354 of 1381 (878299)
06-28-2020 7:43 PM
Reply to: Message 1353 by Tanypteryx
06-28-2020 7:41 PM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
I understand the basis of arguments put forth here. If you did, we would not be chatting.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1353 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-28-2020 7:41 PM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1355 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-28-2020 7:47 PM dad has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2371
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 1355 of 1381 (878300)
06-28-2020 7:47 PM
Reply to: Message 1354 by dad
06-28-2020 7:43 PM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
And if you did we could continue...

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1354 by dad, posted 06-28-2020 7:43 PM dad has not yet responded

  
dad
Member
Posts: 181
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1356 of 1381 (878301)
06-28-2020 7:52 PM
Reply to: Message 1352 by AZPaul3
06-28-2020 7:27 PM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
quote:
That's just the point, dad. There is plenty of evidence that "the nature" never changed sometime in the past. The effects and results of natures consistent operation in the past is precisely what we expect it to be. There are no ... as in none ... effects or results that differed in the past from the same operations of nature we see today.

None that you can see, being blinded by your beliefs. How would you know if there was radioactive decay in the past? You don't. You see it exists today, for example, and then you assign ratios of isotopes dates based on this. A more honest view of the ratios would include creation, as well as the former nature, as well as this present nature! Instead you look only at this end. You assume all the material/ratios came to exist in this present nature. The same sort of thing is true is all other areas and evidences.

You view the fossil record as having been formed in our nature. You cannot prove it. So you try to shift the burden of proof to other beliefs! I can use belief in looking at the fossil record also. You are not the only one that can do that. I believe that nature was likely different and that in that different nature most life on earth simply could not leave remains. That means that man and most animals did exist, but could not leave remains at that time in that nature. From dust we came and to dust we used to very rapidly return apparently! That means your beliefs would totally ruin the true story of the fossil record!

So this is why you MUST demonstrate that the nature on earth in the past was the same. Otherwise all is lost for your religion. (whether you realize it or not)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1352 by AZPaul3, posted 06-28-2020 7:27 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1357 by AZPaul3, posted 06-28-2020 8:55 PM dad has responded
 Message 1359 by JonF, posted 06-28-2020 9:20 PM dad has responded
 Message 1366 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-29-2020 12:37 PM dad has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5118
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 1357 of 1381 (878304)
06-28-2020 8:55 PM
Reply to: Message 1356 by dad
06-28-2020 7:52 PM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
Your twisted religious bullshit not withstanding you have no evidence of any faster nature in the past. Your reliance on some old fairy tale myths from thousands of years ago is not real. It is not evidence of anything but your gullibility and lack of critical thinking skills.

Your evidence, your bible myths, your fairy tales, are rejected.

You have nothing.


Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1356 by dad, posted 06-28-2020 7:52 PM dad has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1360 by dad, posted 06-29-2020 2:12 AM AZPaul3 has responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 6135
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 1358 of 1381 (878306)
06-28-2020 9:10 PM
Reply to: Message 1351 by dad
06-28-2020 7:23 PM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
SN1987A

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1351 by dad, posted 06-28-2020 7:23 PM dad has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1361 by dad, posted 06-29-2020 2:17 AM JonF has not yet responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 6135
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 1359 of 1381 (878308)
06-28-2020 9:20 PM
Reply to: Message 1356 by dad
06-28-2020 7:52 PM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
Radioactive decay rates are based on some of the most fundamental properties of the Universe. If those fundamental properties changed enough to change radioactive decay rates the repercussions would echo down the ages and we'd see them today. We've looked. They aren't there. Radioactive decay rates haven't changed noticeably in the last 13 billion years or so.

Not that you're capable of comprehending that science is one big interconnected ball. You can't change anything that you want to without breaking the entire thing. Since we know science works in the present, and it wouldn't if our conclusions about the past were significantly wrong, we know lots of things about the past that you want to deny.

So this entire post is wasted on you.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1356 by dad, posted 06-28-2020 7:52 PM dad has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1362 by dad, posted 06-29-2020 2:27 AM JonF has responded

  
dad
Member
Posts: 181
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1360 of 1381 (878329)
06-29-2020 2:12 AM
Reply to: Message 1357 by AZPaul3
06-28-2020 8:55 PM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
Faster nature in the past? No. The records so indicate a different nature though. You had the chance to show us that science knows that it was the same. Why have you failed?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1357 by AZPaul3, posted 06-28-2020 8:55 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1367 by AZPaul3, posted 06-29-2020 2:57 PM dad has responded

  
dad
Member
Posts: 181
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1361 of 1381 (878330)
06-29-2020 2:17 AM
Reply to: Message 1358 by JonF
06-28-2020 9:10 PM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
No parallax measure can be used for distances to deep space. All you do is grab a slice of this solar system area and use our time and space here in a big line as one of three lines to a star!! That is just a statement of faith that time and apace are the same all the way to the star. If time and space were not the same no distance is possible. Have you anything else other than religion here?
If you want to cite radioactive decay you have a problem also, The time that decay takes is observed only here, If time were not the same out there, you can forget decay times being the same. Forget light movement times being the same etc.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1358 by JonF, posted 06-28-2020 9:10 PM JonF has not yet responded

  
dad
Member
Posts: 181
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1362 of 1381 (878331)
06-29-2020 2:27 AM
Reply to: Message 1359 by JonF
06-28-2020 9:20 PM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
quote:
Radioactive decay rates are based on some of the most fundamental properties of the Universe

Says who!? Try to remember that properties of laws here in the solar system and area involve time. What we experience in our time as, for example, 51 days, could represent for example, a fraction of a second out there. The time it takes light here to travel is not equal to the time involved in light moving out in the far universe as far as we know. You only believed that for no reason. So, no, you cannot extend fishbowl properties to the whole universe.

quote:
If those fundamental properties changed enough to change radioactive decay rates the repercussions would echo down the ages and we'd see them today. We've looked. They aren't there. Radioactive decay rates haven't changed noticeably in the last 13 billion years or so.

The ONLY radioactive decay and times we see are HERE. If time were not the same out there, that would mean that the decay times we observe would not be the same as the time involved out there. So nothing changes here.

There is nothing but your beliefs that break.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1359 by JonF, posted 06-28-2020 9:20 PM JonF has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1364 by JonF, posted 06-29-2020 10:22 AM dad has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7710
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 1363 of 1381 (878334)
06-29-2020 2:50 AM
Reply to: Message 1351 by dad
06-28-2020 7:23 PM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
dad writes:

I am not fooled, so speak for yourself!

You, of course, know the TRUTH. You are very special.

But my question is not about you, sadly we don't all have your towering intellect.

The earth and the universe it sits in appears very old to the rest of us poor saps and we think - wrongly of course - that the evidence we gather proves it.

My question, should you wish not to avoid it again, is why did your god make it look old to us ordinary folk if it isn't?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1351 by dad, posted 06-28-2020 7:23 PM dad has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1368 by dad, posted 06-29-2020 3:12 PM Tangle has responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 6135
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 1364 of 1381 (878342)
06-29-2020 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 1362 by dad
06-29-2020 2:27 AM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
Says who?

Those who know physics.

The ONLY radioactive decay and times we see are HERE

Nope.

Not by a long shot.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1362 by dad, posted 06-29-2020 2:27 AM dad has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18322
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 1365 of 1381 (878352)
06-29-2020 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 1346 by dad
06-28-2020 4:04 PM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
dad writes:

If you claim anything as science you need real evidence and support.


Yes, that's what I've been telling you. If YOU claim that something happened in the past - e.g. that nature somehow changed - then YOU need to provide evidence that nature changed. Unless YOU can show evidence that nature changed, WE go with the conclusion that nature didn't change.

dad writes:

If I claim we do not know, I am off the hook.


You can claim that YOU don't know. You can not claim that WE don't know.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1346 by dad, posted 06-28-2020 4:04 PM dad has not yet responded

  
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