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Author Topic:   So what about SILT and dating????
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 86 (165243)
12-04-2004 8:29 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by TheLiteralist
12-04-2004 5:34 PM


Re: Fast Warping Possible?
There was a global Flood that lasted about a year
This Flood deposited soft sediments pretty much everywhere
Near the end of the Flood there was a shear event (i.e., the oceanic crust sheared from the continental crust sinking down forming a place to hold the Flood waters ~ in other words, the ocean basins formed)
The shear event, which was global, caused corresponding uplift in the continents (in various directions or axis) causing not only mountains to form but also major river vallies from which the Flood waters and the fresher, soft sediments generally ran off into the new basins and rapidly so.
Hi Literalist. I appreciate, very much, your input here and the commendable way you present your thoughts.
I believe it was a year or so ago, but I did a thread with somewhat similar hypothesis as yours stated above. In Psalms 104 someplace, in reference to the flood it says something like "the mountains rose up and the valleys sank down.
My understanding is that the average crust thickness of the ocean floor is around three miles, whereas the average for the continents is around 20 miles. I read this some place and have no verification for it, so if I'm mistaken, likely someone will correct me. My hypothesis was that much of the water was in the atmosphere as a vapor canopy effecting a terrarium like atmosphere over the earth and the flood brought most of it down upon a relatively smooth surfaced planet. The weight of all the water sank down i.e. sheared the thinner crust and as you say uplifted the mountain ranges, most of which tend to be along ocean shores.
Of course, it is futile to try to present such an argument here on evc as one soon becomes accused by admin and others of breaking admin rules by unscientific argument. So like you are ending up doing in a nice way here, that's about all we can do is present it as "musings" and leave it at that. I believe it to be factual, but don't know enough to put up a substantial debate on it. Back when I tried it, we went many pages about how such a canopy could exist and all. I was using logic and they were using the math, so to speak. It definitely involves the supernatural and that's the crux. Anyhow, keep up the good work. Again, you're input is greatly appreciated here.

The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buz

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by TheLiteralist, posted 12-04-2004 5:34 PM TheLiteralist has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by roxrkool, posted 12-05-2004 12:50 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 40 by Percy, posted 12-05-2004 10:34 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 41 by edge, posted 12-05-2004 12:24 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 42 by IrishRockhound, posted 12-05-2004 1:02 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 48 by TheLiteralist, posted 12-13-2004 9:47 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 77 of 86 (544791)
01-28-2010 12:44 PM


Musings On The Thread
I just finished re-reading this thread from beginning to end. Several thoughts come to mind in all of this:
1) That the Biblical record does have it that there has been tectonic uplifting and that the oceans were once shallow as per scientific observation, though the interpretations of the PoVs do not agree.
2) If indeed the Biblical model is true, perhaps it would be impossible to know the element and chemical makeup of a pre-flood atmosphere relative to current dating methodology.
3) Since the Biblical record has it that significant underground water was released via the effect of the extraordinary volumn of water fallen from the atmosphere to earth on earth's crust, it would be difficult for creation floodists to verify data on how much this would factor in on the lowering of the ocean floors. Perhaps the reason the ocean crusts are observed to be much thinner average than the land crust is that the regions of the oceans were where the largest subterrain lakes (or small oceans) existed. Thus, perhaps, when they broke up, the earth surfaces in that region the lower ocean floors were formed. This would also account for, perhaps, some plate tectonic activity, a considerable amount of volcanic activity and account for some of the great volumn of ocean water observed presently.
To put it in the words of The Literalist, some musings.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Percy, posted 01-29-2010 7:28 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 79 of 86 (545212)
02-02-2010 8:55 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by Percy
01-29-2010 7:28 AM


Re: Musings On The Thread
Percy writes:
"Scientific observation" implies something someone actually saw and recorded. Maybe "scientific evidence" would be a more appropriate term?
Anyway, what makes you think there's scientific evidence that ancient oceans were shallow?
Hi Percy. It has been my understanding that during the Ice Age the oceans were shallow enough that all of the continents were connected above sea level and that animals could move about the planet.
Percy writes:
Buzsaw writes:
2) If indeed the Biblical model is true, perhaps it would be impossible to know the element and chemical makeup of a pre-flood atmosphere relative to current dating methodology.
Things that actually happened and were real leave evidence behind, so I don't know why you say it would be impossible to know about things that you think the Bible claims happened in the past. But it would be impossible to find evidence for things that never actually happened.
It is believed by many creationists that if the flood were reality that the makeup of the atmosphere and topography of the planet would be substantially different than post flood. Thus it would seem that evidence as to the chemistry of the atmosphere would be unknown.
Percy writes:
Buzsaw writes:
Since the Biblical record has it that significant underground water was released via the effect of the extraordinary volumn of water fallen from the atmosphere to earth on earth's crust...etc...
More unsupported assertions, no evidence, and you're exhibiting the same pattern in other threads. In a recent post in another thread (Message 56) you said, "The science of all of this, of course, is beyond my knowledge." When this is the case it is good to follow this advice from Wittgenstein: Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.
If, according to the Biblical record, the subterrain water was released, the implication is that the weight of the flood waters ollapsed the thin crust over those subterrain waters so as to deepen those areas of subterrain water. This may have been a factor in some uplifting and deep seas.
Percy writes:
But your lack of knowledge in this area is easily remedied: read a good geology book. I believe this is the same advice consistently given to you all along.
The complaint constantly leveled at you was that you kept up a continual stream of proposals that not only had no supporting evidence, but contradicted known facts and even violated the laws of physics. You then compounded this by not addressing the evidence presented to you across hundreds of messages, by not presenting any relevant evidence of your own, and all the while maintaining that ideas in violation of known scientific laws could somehow be acceptable as good science.
So stop bemoaning your ignorance by saying things like "don't know enough" and do something about it. That way you won't keep advancing "roll-your-eyes" kinds of ideas.
What I said then is just as true today. The same factors that caused you to decide to cease participation here some months ago are still fully in play, and I don't understand why you're back.
Percy, with all due respect, why this personal attack? You are attacking me for reluctance to buy the mainline science view. I have tried to operate within the perameters of my knowledge in the threads. So far, since reactivating my account, for the most part my input has been as relevant as the average member. Most of what I have said has been within the Forum Guidelines equally as much as the average member.
I have admitted in the above message that that message was musings relative to the flood in response to my reading of the entire thread.
Unless you cite specific examples as evidence that I have been consistently posting contrary to guidelines, aren't your claims unsupported assertions?

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Percy, posted 01-29-2010 7:28 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by Huntard, posted 02-02-2010 9:09 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 81 by PaulK, posted 02-02-2010 9:32 AM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 82 by Coyote, posted 02-02-2010 2:53 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 83 of 86 (545250)
02-02-2010 4:22 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by PaulK
02-02-2010 9:32 AM


Re: Musings On The Thread
PaulK writes:
In fact I think you will find that the usual creationist argument concerning the atmosphere is that pressure from the "vapour canopy" increased the pressure and the actual composition is much the same as it is in our time (as we would expect, given that the Bible offers no hint that pre-Flood life was significantly different from modern life - something that would make little sense in, say, a hydrogen-fluorine atmosphere).
And if anyone is feeling a hint of deja vu here, it's because you tried to attack radiometric dating with very similar argument. And it turned out that you didn't have a clue what you were talking about. All you could do was insist that the science that you hadn't bothered to investigate had to agree with you - when in fact the relevant science indicated that you were talking complete nonsense. And that was not qualified as "musings".
Hi Paul.
1) I don't understand how anyone can conclude that life was uniform pre-flood to what is post flood as per the Biblical record. Surely you are aware that as per the Biblical record, men lived as long as 9+ centuries and that after the flood that life quickly digressed from 6 to 9 hundred years down to 300, then 200 and by the time of Moses, down to under 200 and that larger animals such as mamoths and dinos lived on the earth? If that be the case, then there had to be factors which would affect dating methology.
2) The unique Buz hypothesis is in some respects, more compatible with the mainline science view than that of most fundi creationists.
3) Science could only speculate on the properties of a pre-Biblical flood atmosphere and chemical makeup of earth's surface, etc, since the data would not be uniform to the the view which science has studied.
All I intended by my original message here was a musing on some aspects of the thread, since what was discussed in the thread applied to some of what I said. I do not intend to further irritate Admin and you folks by continuing on this in this thread.
Thanks to those of you who responded. I hope you will understand why I will not be commenting further.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by PaulK, posted 02-02-2010 9:32 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by Taq, posted 02-02-2010 4:36 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 85 by PaulK, posted 02-02-2010 4:59 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 86 by Admin, posted 02-02-2010 8:57 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
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