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Author Topic:   Confession of a former christian
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 219 (465352)
05-05-2008 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Grizz
05-04-2008 4:52 PM


The final nail in the coffin for my Christian faith was again, of all places, as a freshman at Notre Dame, where I took a course on the Historical Jesus. End of Story.
What did you learn about the Historical Jesus that put the final nail in the coffin and ended the story?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Grizz, posted 05-04-2008 4:52 PM Grizz has not replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 47 of 219 (466006)
05-12-2008 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by Stile
05-12-2008 9:43 AM


Re: Need to test myself for being fooled
Stile writes:
iano writes:
How certain would you like to be. That's no problem to God..
I would like to be certain to the point where I can test myself (and get agreement from others) that I am indeed not fooling myself.
If that's no problem to God, then I have no issue.
But perhaps I misunderstood you. Are you now stating that this level of certainty actually is a problem to God? Why would that be? Why would God want us to leave ourselves open to following false-Gods or maybe even just our imagination?
If God proved himself in an empirical sense, then people wouldn't need to have faith in god, they would know that god exists.
For some reason, God has it so that we have to have faith in him.
I don't know why, but there's a thread on it:
Why is Faith so Important to God?
I haven't read it all yet...
Edited by Catholic Scientist, : No reason given.

Science fails to recognize the single most potent element of human existence.
Letting the reigns go to the unfolding is faith, faith, faith, faith.
Science has failed our world.
Science has failed our Mother Earth.
-System of a Down, "Science"
He who makes a beast out of himself, gets rid of the pain of being a man.
-Avenged Sevenfold, "Bat Country"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Stile, posted 05-12-2008 9:43 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by Stile, posted 05-12-2008 12:52 PM New Cat's Eye has replied
 Message 54 by iano, posted 05-13-2008 5:22 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 49 of 219 (466026)
05-12-2008 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by Stile
05-12-2008 12:52 PM


Re: Need to test myself for being fooled
Catholic Scientist writes:
If God proved himself in an empirical sense, then people wouldn't need to have faith in god, they would know that god exists.
I agree.
For some reason, God has it so that we have to have faith in him.
This does not follow from all the information we have about reality, here are some alternatives:
I didn't state any of the assumptions or premises that my conclusion was based on.....
One assumption was that god does exist.
1. God does not exist.
2. God (for whatever reason) cannot use empirical methods to indicate His existence to us.
3. God doesn't care to empirically indicate His existence to us.
4. There are other powerful beings preventing God from empirically indicating His existence to us.
5. Something we don't yet understand or know about.
Sure, any of those could work for some undefined god, but not for any god. For example, an omnipotent god would not work with number 2.
I don't see how your statement of reality ("God has it so that...") is more valid than any of these alternatives.
I was just sayin'...
Its an opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Stile, posted 05-12-2008 12:52 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Stile, posted 05-12-2008 4:11 PM New Cat's Eye has replied
 Message 52 by Rrhain, posted 05-13-2008 4:58 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 51 of 219 (466032)
05-12-2008 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Stile
05-12-2008 4:11 PM


Re: To each their own assumptions
I suppose it's up to us all individually which assumptions about reality (if any) we should be making
I suppose, but your question still stands:
quote:
Why would God want us to leave ourselves open to following false-Gods or maybe even just our imagination?
Why does the Christian God rely on faith for us to believe in him rather than comming down and showing us that he exists?
The thread I linked to had a lot of BS in it and I'm not so sure the question was addressed specifically. Maybe the thread could be revamped, or maybe a whole new thread is due.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Stile, posted 05-12-2008 4:11 PM Stile has seen this message but not replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 78 of 219 (466293)
05-14-2008 9:04 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by DwarfishSquints
05-13-2008 10:26 PM


DwarfishSquints writes:
Rahvin writes:
ut oh, look! The Bible itself also says, very clearly, that "Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered." The mountains had to have already existed, and we know the depth of the water...and there is not enough water on the planet to Flood the Earth to that depth, even without the mountains.
these Mountains were Not like the Mountains we have today if you can imagine a flood covering the earth i think there would be3 some movement don't you?
Where does it say that the mountains were different?
If you're interpreting the Bible to mean that then you are no longer reading it literally.
You don't read the Bible as if its the literal word of God?
Why should I accept your interpretation over another?
ABE (added by edit):
If you're going to interpret the mountain thing (and also say that child stoning is metaphorical), then why can't you just say that the whole flood story is a metaphor too?
How do you decide what is metaphor and what is not?
Edited by Catholic Scientist, : see ABE:

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by DwarfishSquints, posted 05-13-2008 10:26 PM DwarfishSquints has replied

Replies to this message:
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