The Unbended Curved Bar Space Slugout Thread

No one confused the analogy but you, Buzsaw. No one who ventured into the fray, at any rate. What we (Me and the mouse in my pocket.) are doing is simplifying the situation to remove complications toward understanding. When an analogy fails beyond its intended parameters we move to a new analogy. I very much agree that the "Straight Bar" concept in question is more difficult to visualize then its "Level Bar" analogy, and don't confound the two.Let me try to get you to answer this question again. Last time I asked you thought it a stupid exercise. How do you derive your standard of "absolutely straight"? How do you determine whether your bar is straight? What do you measure it against? What tool(s) do you use?If you still think it's not worth answering, I'm stumped as to how we'd get any further then you being the smartest man in the whole wide world.Thanks for having this put into free for all, because after I run out of sensible ideas I can just start rankin' on ya'.Edited by lyx2no, : "Ranking" didn't have the homey quality I was shootin'
for.Edited by lyx2no, : Grammar.

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KindlyWhen I was young I loved everything about cigarettes: the smell, the taste, the feel . everything. Now that I’m older I’ve had a change of heart. Want to see the scar?

Let me try to get you to answer this question again. The next to last time I asked you thought it a stupid exercise. How do you derive your standard of "absolutely straight"? How do you determine whether your bar is straight? What do you measure it against? What tool(s) do you use?

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KindlyWhen I was young I loved everything about cigarettes: the smell, the taste, the feel . everything. Now that I’m older I’ve had a change of heart. Want to see the scar?

Turtles all the way down is it?

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KindlyWhen I was young I loved everything about cigarettes: the smell, the taste, the feel . everything. Now that I’m older I’ve had a change of heart. Want to see the scar?

Let me try to get you to answer this question again. Once when I asked you thought it a stupid exercise. How do you derive your standard of "absolutely straight"? How do you determine whether your bar is straight? What do you measure it against? What tool(s) do you use?AbE: One would see a little fish eye sky with a smaller and smaller diameter with an increasing blue shift as one got nearer the event horizon. (Assuming I'm still in my space station which is not falling in along with the light.)Edited by lyx2no, : No reason given.Edited by lyx2no, : Answer cavediver's wee quiz.Edited by lyx2no, : Clarification.

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KindlyWhen I was young I loved everything about cigarettes: the smell, the taste, the feel . everything. Now that I’m older I’ve had a change of heart. Want to see the scar?

Oh goodie! How does one know it's straight?Screw my totally bogus analogy. It's been nothing but a waste of time anyhow ” stupid analogy. If one does not measure it how is one to know it is absolutely straight and not just so slightly bent that no one can detect the curve at any one location?Screw the whole planet for that matter ” stupid planet. With what methods and tools (thought tools as this is only a thought experiment, of course.) does one confirm its straightness?Bor-ing!Bye the bye: You've used a ten thousand mile bar and a one billion mile bar as examples of how great your bar is. Do you realize how puny those measures are relitive to the scale under discussion? You'd not make it to ♄.

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KindlyWhen I was young I loved everything about cigarettes: the smell, the taste, the feel . everything. Now that I’m older I’ve had a change of heart. Want to see the scar?

There is a small chance that Buz may have an epiphany and we're hoping we can be there for it. Not to mention that it's kind of fun to wank on him.

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KindlyWhen I was young I loved everything about cigarettes: the smell, the taste, the feel . everything. Now that I’m older I’ve had a change of heart. Want to see the scar?

I don't think you have the slightest clue as to the enormity of the chore you wave away. It is unlikely that using your finest straight edge and your sharpest scribe you would be able to etch a one foot long line that the two end points and the center point would not describe a radius less then that of Earth, yet alone the Universe. To use your own example of the 555' 5.125" (169.29 m) tall Washington monument, a deviation from plumb of only 0.0885 inches (2.25 mm) would describe a ring with one Earth radius. You're right, buz, it wouldn't span the Universe and bump into itself. It won't make it all the way across the planet before it does.Tell me, Buz, When you look at the moon, is the line you are sighting a straight one? When the moon sits on the horizon your line of sight is off straight by 2,800 miles, Buz. If you don't notice 2,800 miles deviation due to atmospheric diffraction between here and the moon, how do you think you're going notice a deviation of minor fractions of your bar over universal distances?To anyone else: Please don't get the idea that I'm thinking this is merely a measurements problem. I'm currently just trying to get Buzsaw to see that his intuitive understanding is not adequate for the task at hand.Edited by lyx2no, : Needless worry.

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KindlyWhen I was young I loved everything about cigarettes: the smell, the taste, the feel . everything. Now that I’m older I’ve had a change of heart. Want to see the scar?

You know, of course, that Eddington's 1919 observation of bent space was the first confirmation of GR; so those whom you go along with are pretty much nuts. First, you're wrong. Second, you've got better then engineers* right here. Exactly how daft are you trying to prove yourself to be? I know you don't read my posts, but you can't be reading your posts either. At least you upped the distance to zilliions. And what the hell is "unbended"? Are there no irregular verbs in your town.P.S.: The bar is not ☞ bent ☜ ” that bit is true ” if it were the ends would miss each other. Nothing bends the bar, it follows an absolutely straight line.*Not that there is anything wrong with engineers. Some of my best friends are engineers.Edited by lyx2no, : *Edited by lyx2no, : GR not SR. Sorry , my bad.

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KindlyWhen I was young I loved everything about cigarettes: the smell, the taste, the feel . everything. Now that I’m older I’ve had a change of heart. Want to see the scar?

You're asking that he be oblivious, not unbiased.

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KindlyWhen I was young I loved everything about cigarettes: the smell, the taste, the feel . everything. Now that I’m older I’ve had a change of heart. Want to see the scar?

If the light ray were merely responding to Newtonian gravity (the light ray bending) the deviation from the expected location of the source would be half the size of of the effect caused by the space between being warped (the light ray not bending). Therefore, the two can be distinguished. Curved space won: Light takes the shortest, straightest time-space path, which in a gravitational field is not the same shape as away from the gravitational field. One must be bent. You pick.AbE:I'll admit that, but making sense to the laity isn't much of a standard, Buz.Edited by lyx2no, : ✌

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KindlyWhen I was young I loved everything about cigarettes: the smell, the taste, the feel . everything. Now that I’m older I’ve had a change of heart. Want to see the scar?

What in blue blazes are you talking about?

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KindlyWhen I was young I loved everything about cigarettes: the smell, the taste, the feel . everything. Now that I’m older I’ve had a change of heart. Want to see the scar?

They made the observation harder, but they had no directional effect of any kind, no. Cross two laser beams; is there any effect whatsoever? It's an experiment you can do at home.

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KindlyWhen I was young I loved everything about cigarettes: the smell, the taste, the feel . everything. Now that I’m older I’ve had a change of heart. Want to see the scar?

No you're not. You're asserting it at best. You've not added one new bit of commentary to it this entire thread. All you've got is "What property of space allow for it to curve?" The answer is "bendability". Let's now argue about that not being a real word. At least that would give another dimension to your "debate".

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KindlyWhen I was young I loved everything about cigarettes: the smell, the taste, the feel . everything. Now that I’m older I’ve had a change of heart. Want to see the scar?

No longer is a force bending the bar: A small light shines.

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KindlyWhen I was young I loved everything about cigarettes: the smell, the taste, the feel . everything. Now that I’m older I’ve had a change of heart. Want to see the scar?

I'm convinced that if Buzsaw is capable of interpreting "freedom" from the wiki article as the 4^thdimension being "Number Fudging Potential" then I'm sure he'll be able to make whatever he wants out of all those word thingies in Message 127.

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KindlyWhen I was young I loved everything about cigarettes: the smell, the taste, the feel . everything. Now that I’m older I’ve had a change of heart. Want to see the scar?