The Unbended Curved Bar Space Slugout Thread

This thread is proposed for my opponents in this debate who claim that the two ends of an all dimensional straight bar can be joined via space curvature who care to try to make some sense out of their arguments.The last we heard from them was when they tried to obfuscate my model of an absolute straight bar by confusing the term/word straight with level.What they are doing is clear. They are using a model such as the curvature of the earth and a two dimensional straight and level line relative to the curvature of the earth for a three dimensional universe to which my all dimensional bar model applies.I'm not of the mind to let them off the hook on this. I would appreciate if this thread could be proposed in a thread which is not restricted to conventional science criteria; perhaps Coffee House.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

How about the Freeforall then? Why can't I debate my POV? Why am I required to aques to the conventional POV in order to participate? I have shown where they obfuscated my model? Why does your POV get a pass on that?

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is my last message relative to calling my opponents on their unfair tactic of obfuscating my model by applying the word/term level in their attempt to destroy my valid argument. LOL on that.It appears from the responses to my heads up on their spin tactic that my opponents in this debate ran out of gas. All we got from them was the usual demeaning personal insults and attempts to characterize me as an unlearned old fool.Well, my friends, here's your chance to get in the ring with me and show your stuff. You might begin by citing something - any statement that this old fool posted that you can substantially falsify relative to this bar model space issue. Notice I didn't say non-mainline POV scientific. I said, that you can substantially falsify.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Thanks for coming in, lyx2. Weren't you paying attention to what I posted in the exchange over there? How could I make it more clear as to what I meant about absolute straight. What I meant that it was straight and unbended in all dimensions Your earth/level analogy line is not an absolute straight bar. Your earth surface model is not analogous to the 3D universe.My bar must bend to make it's way around the 2d circumference of the earth and connect the two ends.The ultimate question in this debate is what property of space is capable of connecting the two ends of the absolute straight unbended bar if extended into space. If you say 'curvature,' that doesn't cut it. We know by observation that no matter how long any circle is, be it the planet or be it the universe, that that bar MUST bend for it's two ends to connect. That's reality.(Note: Likely I was composing my last message at the same time you was doing yours.)

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

"Higher dimension...do not have access to." That's interesting. That argument doesn't cut it in the science fora for theistic creationists who cite evidence of higher dimensional intelligence in the universe capable of ID. GONG! My static space, unbounded space and infinite space universe is also closed, sufficient for an absolute unbended straight line to extend infinitely, remaining unjoined to itself.What observable model can you cite which will join the two ends of the absolute straight bar? Unless it is the matter, energy and forces existing in the unbounded space/area of the universe, all having observational properties, which render things observable within the unbounded universe spherical via the conglomerate forces such as gravity or electromagnetism existing in the universe's unbounded space/area and not space itself.Ongoing Unanswered question: What observable property of space effects curvature?

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

1. Perhaps then you should reread my response relative to neither being accessible but only one being admissible in the science fora.2. Intelligence is no more si-fi than dimension. Neither have the property of visibility. Both can be measured.3. I did not alledge that dimension is a place. Perhaps you need to brush up on you own reading and comprehension skills before going at another's.

Hi Huntard. Welcome to EvC. We have something in common in that we both must apply some common sense and logic to what is alleged.Come, let us reason together. Suppose, Huntard, that you came to America and we stood at the foot of the straight and tall Washington Monument at Washington DC. Do you think that if there were enough matter and energy to extend that rigid straight and tall monument up into the cosmos that the tip of it would go full circle around the alleged finite universe to form a circle to have the pointed tip top of it protrude up through planet earth and crash into the base of itself WITHOUT BENDING?

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

I was thinking along these lines last night after going to bed. Perhaps what we regard as the universe is a gigantic galaxy like disc of billions of galaxies, existing in space, perhaps even as just one of billions of these in the cosmos far beyond our comprehension or observation. I say perhaps.This would make the universe immensly greater than one could imagine.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

1. An infinite unbounded space universe is closed since the infinite space is inclusive in the universe as being area in which anything existing does exist. It is an infinite universe having no bounds and no outside of.2. Unbounded infinite space cannot curl up on itself.3. Your 2D line can certainly join up to itself since it needs be straight in only 2 dimensions. My all dimensional bar model is not 2d and must be straight in all dimensions.4. To clarify my poorly composed statement this is what I meant: It is the matter, energy and forces existing in the unbounded space/area of the universe, all having observational properties, which make the universe appear as spherical via the conglomerate forces such as gravity or electromagnetism existing in the universe's unbounded space/area and not space itself.It appears that we now agree that mass is what makes the visible area of our universe appear spherical and we then agree that space does not have the property of the ability to curve. What we do not agree on is your contention that space is bounded.So now the question appears to be: what are the properties of space which render it capable of having bounds with no space outside of the space bounds?

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

No, Cavediver. Buz has enough sense to observe an unbended straight flag pole, bar, or the Washington Monument and conclude that nothing is going to connect the two ends of them without bending one of their dimensions. Your 2D model is bogus in a 3D universe. You people have had this nonsense programmed into your minds to the extent that you are willing to accept and argue a bogus 2D model in your 3D universe. I'm not buying it. Edited by Buzsaw, : No reason given.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

My bar is straight in all dimensions. It's not 2D like yours (bogus) so it needn't be measured against anything. It works the same whether it's perpendicular to the earth surface, 45 degrees or horizontal. It remains straight all the way out into infinite unbounded space, since no property of space can affect any of it's dimensions.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

No tools needed to know it's straight enough so as for it's two ends not to join.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

1. To determine what property/properties of space have the ability to curve/be curved.2. To determine what property/properties of space have the ability to cause the joining of the two ends of a bar or line of which all dimensions are unbended and absolute straight.ABE: Make that "bar" and drop the "line" since lines can either be 2 dimensional imaginary or 3 dimensional lines consisting of material. Thanks to Huntard for pointing this out to me. Edited by Buzsaw, : as noted

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Here's the opener in my OP, Kuresu. It's very close to my update. If you have a problem with that, why not respond in substance to the update or go and participate where you you're more confortable?

I believe you're right on that, Huntard. Thank you for correcting me on that.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.