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Author Topic:   Free will but how free really?
Dogmafood
Member (Idle past 86 days)
Posts: 1815
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


Message 112 of 182 (812295)
06-15-2017 7:14 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Taq
06-14-2017 5:10 PM


It's a concept in quantum mechanics.

The question of free will always comes down to the question of causality and determinism.

Therefore, it really doesn't matter if there is free will in our lives as long as you can close your eyes, throw your hands in the air, have fun, and make it through...

It matters because the self rests in the space left by a break in the causal chain. The question of responsibility relies on the ability of the individual to be a breaking point by conscious decision. And so it comes down to the nature of consciousness and what it means to be aware.

If it turns out that I have no real choices then the house of cards falls to the ground.

edit

Suspension of disbelief is ok for the rollercoaster but not so much for the contemplation of existence.

Edited by ProtoTypical, : No reason given.


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Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by NoNukes, posted 06-15-2017 8:33 PM Dogmafood has responded

  
Dogmafood
Member (Idle past 86 days)
Posts: 1815
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


Message 114 of 182 (812305)
06-15-2017 10:12 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by NoNukes
06-15-2017 8:33 PM


What is purpose of such concepts as responsibility, punishment, or even deterrence if none of those things can actually work. And how could those concepts work if every human act is predetermined.

The fact is that we cant get along without the concept. Where would we be without personal responsibility?

What I find interesting is how the our jurisprudence works better as we appreciate that people are a product of their environment.

One possible counter-argument is that we all have an illusory sense of free will which compels us to act as though our actions have consequences.

That seems unacceptable to me as well.


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Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-15-2017 10:53 PM Dogmafood has responded

  
Dogmafood
Member (Idle past 86 days)
Posts: 1815
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


Message 116 of 182 (812363)
06-16-2017 8:04 AM
Reply to: Message 115 by New Cat's Eye
06-15-2017 10:53 PM


It is an interesting paradigm where we need the process of cause and effect so that we can assign responsibility to the individual and at the same time that process removes responsibility.

To make sense, there has to be more people than environments;

I don't know about 'more' but there has to be at least some input from the individual that originates with the individual.


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 Message 119 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-16-2017 10:51 AM Dogmafood has responded

  
Dogmafood
Member (Idle past 86 days)
Posts: 1815
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


Message 124 of 182 (812535)
06-17-2017 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 119 by New Cat's Eye
06-16-2017 10:51 AM


Being a "product of your environment" looses practicality if every individual has their own unique environment.

I am not sure I get what you are saying. Practical or not, we are products of our environments and each one is unique.

People are a product with their environment, not of it. Our wills are, actually, free to operate within their boundaries. That we decide what we will actually do is what puts the onus of our actions upon ourselves.

How would this apply to something like sexual orientation or taste in music? Do we choose the things that we find attractive and is resisting a desire more of a choice than giving in to one?

It seems to me that our volition is just a calculator always trying to balance the equation in our favour. Not unlike an autonomous car safely navigating the way.


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