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Author Topic:   Spherical Issues
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 241 of 301 (467226)
05-20-2008 9:40 AM
Reply to: Message 234 by bluegenes
05-19-2008 6:13 PM


Re: Mmmm.....the pure insanity....
Languages are un-vindicated prior to 6000 years. But getting back to the topic at hand, and to move on, the issue has widespread impact, namely that of a finite universe. There are only two possible explanations for the emergence of a finite universe.
1. It occured using different materials/forces not contained in this universe whatsoever - else it violates a finite universe.
2. Ex Nehilo. This however is not science, but a premise unique to Genesis.
I see no other alternatives. And in both the above scenarios, ToE becomes vindicated only as an after the fact process as per Genesis' mode of evolution, and one which negates the Darwinian mode: the seed factor prevails as the instrument for speciation, and this leads to the premise the universe's growth and progression was factored in a programme outside of the universe's structurism. Today's chip technology gives this even more credence, which works on its embedded program, rather than belated environmental impacts.
In both cases, an outside, independent impact is signified. Here, the notion of a gradual, self-developing and self-accumulating process for the universe becomes non-plausable. The latter can be explained by allowing all belated impacts, such as the environment, being recipient based and intergrated; IOW, sunlight and water cannot sustain life - if the elements and objects they impact does not behave in a critical reciprocratic mode.
We cannot cause life, for example, with sunlight, water and gasses in terrains which are not reciprocal: thus two programs are needed in two objects which produce a new one. This signifies a hovering force able to direct and know the attributes and limitations of both objects. An intergration negates a random: if we find a lock on Jupiter, we can deem it a plausable random occurence; but if we also find an exacting key for that lock - the random possibility is negated. Thus I find when we track a process as close as we can to its origin premise, the logic fails to accomodate or validate the conclusions held in sciences concerning the BBT.
Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by bluegenes, posted 05-19-2008 6:13 PM bluegenes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 243 by lyx2no, posted 05-20-2008 3:12 PM IamJoseph has not replied
 Message 268 by bluegenes, posted 05-21-2008 10:42 AM IamJoseph has replied

lyx2no
Member (Idle past 4716 days)
Posts: 1277
From: A vast, undifferentiated plane.
Joined: 02-28-2008


Message 242 of 301 (467247)
05-20-2008 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 238 by cavediver
05-20-2008 5:19 AM


Re: Yes but.........
IaJ writes:
for a brief moment, consider what that says or signifies?
Yeah, cavediver, why don't you spend more time hitting the books and less time with fast cars, fast women and rock-n-roll. Don't you know nothing. IaJ does.

Kindly
Ta-da ≠ QED

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by cavediver, posted 05-20-2008 5:19 AM cavediver has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 245 by cavediver, posted 05-20-2008 3:43 PM lyx2no has not replied
 Message 251 by IamJoseph, posted 05-20-2008 7:15 PM lyx2no has replied

lyx2no
Member (Idle past 4716 days)
Posts: 1277
From: A vast, undifferentiated plane.
Joined: 02-28-2008


Message 243 of 301 (467248)
05-20-2008 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 241 by IamJoseph
05-20-2008 9:40 AM


Re: Mmmm.....the pure insanity....
And now I know why we don't use waffles to shingle dog houses.

Kindly
Ta-da ≠ QED

This message is a reply to:
 Message 241 by IamJoseph, posted 05-20-2008 9:40 AM IamJoseph has not replied

Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 244 of 301 (467251)
05-20-2008 3:22 PM
Reply to: Message 239 by Percy
05-20-2008 8:28 AM


Re: Yes but.........
Percy writes:
The issue is transmission of disease, and the hands are a common communicator of disease. You wash before for yourself. You wash after for others.
But he claims to care for other people and that washing his hands before but not after is good for other people. Just like with IamJoe, though, everytime I ask him why he always gives me an answer that is impossible to understand. We'd go around in circles.
I'm not saying my father's way of thinking would be in sync with IamJoe. But at least what they have in common is they both think on a different level than the rest of us and it's nearly impossible for us or them to understand each other. I've been rereading Joe's messages and I still can't figure what the hell he's talking about.
Edited by Taz, : No reason given.

I'm trying to see things your way, but I can't put my head that far up my ass.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 239 by Percy, posted 05-20-2008 8:28 AM Percy has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 246 by cavediver, posted 05-20-2008 3:46 PM Taz has replied
 Message 249 by IamJoseph, posted 05-20-2008 7:06 PM Taz has not replied

cavediver
Member (Idle past 3643 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 245 of 301 (467255)
05-20-2008 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 242 by lyx2no
05-20-2008 3:09 PM


Re: Yes but.........
Yeah, cavediver, why don't you spend more time hitting the books and less time with fast cars, fast women and rock-n-roll.
I currently drive a Civic Type-R (slow for me)
My wife runs
I was fourth row at the Roger Waters gig on Sunday
You may just be right

This message is a reply to:
 Message 242 by lyx2no, posted 05-20-2008 3:09 PM lyx2no has not replied

cavediver
Member (Idle past 3643 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 246 of 301 (467256)
05-20-2008 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 244 by Taz
05-20-2008 3:22 PM


Re: Yes but.........
I've been rereading Joe's messages and I still can't figure what the hell he's talking about.
Gotta say, Taz, I'm with you there:
IaJ writes:
cavediver writes:
The "surface analogy" as you call it is specifically demonstrating a *** FINITE UNIVERSE ***
...'IN ACADEMIC [MATHS ONLY]' terms. Thus its centre in also a virtual one, depending which position on the surface one stances on. In all actual cases [eg. w/actual demonsions] - a centre is a fact.
Anyone care to translate this in light of what I said above?
Edited by cavediver, : No reason given.
Edited by cavediver, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by Taz, posted 05-20-2008 3:22 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 247 by Taz, posted 05-20-2008 5:27 PM cavediver has not replied

Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 247 of 301 (467274)
05-20-2008 5:27 PM
Reply to: Message 246 by cavediver
05-20-2008 3:46 PM


Re: Yes but.........
cavediver writes:
Anyone care to translate this in light of what I said above?
The closest thing I can think of to what IaJ is talking about there is optics. In certain frame of reference or certain medium, we could have an actual image and a virtual image of an object. I'm not sure exactly how I could connect this to IaJ's statement there. But may be we could go from here?

I'm trying to see things your way, but I can't put my head that far up my ass.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 246 by cavediver, posted 05-20-2008 3:46 PM cavediver has not replied

bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4190 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 248 of 301 (467275)
05-20-2008 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 240 by IamJoseph
05-20-2008 9:00 AM


Re: Yes but.........
.'IN ACADEMIC [MATHS ONLY]' terms. Thus its centre in also a virtual one, depending which position on the surface one stances on. In all actual cases [eg. w/actual demonsions] - a centre is a fact.
Could you explain the above statement in terms someone with a science background could understand and not in josephwocky.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

This message is a reply to:
 Message 240 by IamJoseph, posted 05-20-2008 9:00 AM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 250 by IamJoseph, posted 05-20-2008 7:12 PM bluescat48 has replied

IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 249 of 301 (467285)
05-20-2008 7:06 PM
Reply to: Message 244 by Taz
05-20-2008 3:22 PM


Re: Yes but.........
Lol, just for the record, the washing of hands was first mandated as a law in the OT. I see it as deficient this is not acknowledged when discussing this issue, specially from otherwise IamLearned folks. Bet you guys are not yet clued ypto where the faculty of medicine comes from: no - not from where you think!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by Taz, posted 05-20-2008 3:22 PM Taz has not replied

IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 250 of 301 (467286)
05-20-2008 7:12 PM
Reply to: Message 248 by bluescat48
05-20-2008 5:31 PM


Re: Yes but.........
In all physical examples, a centre is not negotiable. With regard a 'surface', my position is tow fold:
1. It does contain a centre and boundaries, as does all surfaces of all entities, including the universe.
2. A surface, when presented w/o physical dimensions [miles, inches, etc] - is not a physical entity, but an academic one. It only exists on paper, such as a mathematical premise. And the surface, in its academic premise, is the only one which has been presented to evidence a sphere, and thereby the physical universe, does not contain a centre or boundary. This is manifestly incorrect from a science and maths premise - unless one uses casino maths - namely, to prove a physical conclusion via manipulated academic provisions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 248 by bluescat48, posted 05-20-2008 5:31 PM bluescat48 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 258 by bluescat48, posted 05-20-2008 10:20 PM IamJoseph has replied

IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 251 of 301 (467289)
05-20-2008 7:15 PM
Reply to: Message 242 by lyx2no
05-20-2008 3:09 PM


Re: Yes but.........
Do you accept the universe is finite?
Do you accept a finite entity cannot contain anything infinite?
Yes/No will do.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 242 by lyx2no, posted 05-20-2008 3:09 PM lyx2no has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 254 by lyx2no, posted 05-20-2008 9:10 PM IamJoseph has replied

ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 252 of 301 (467309)
05-20-2008 8:49 PM
Reply to: Message 226 by IamJoseph
05-19-2008 3:24 AM


Yes, why do embrace such denial. Are you unable to look at a 3D analogy to a 4D model? Do you understand what the terms 'finite but unbounded' would mean?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 226 by IamJoseph, posted 05-19-2008 3:24 AM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 253 by IamJoseph, posted 05-20-2008 9:07 PM ramoss has not replied

IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 253 of 301 (467314)
05-20-2008 9:07 PM
Reply to: Message 252 by ramoss
05-20-2008 8:49 PM


quote:
Do you understand what the terms 'finite but unbounded' would mean?
Please give me a for example. Show me a thing which is w/o a boundary?
Please say - the universe of course!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by ramoss, posted 05-20-2008 8:49 PM ramoss has not replied

lyx2no
Member (Idle past 4716 days)
Posts: 1277
From: A vast, undifferentiated plane.
Joined: 02-28-2008


Message 254 of 301 (467317)
05-20-2008 9:10 PM
Reply to: Message 251 by IamJoseph
05-20-2008 7:15 PM


Re: Yes but.........
Infinite is not the issue. Unbounded is the issue. This has been stated repeatedly.

Kindly
A mind changed against its will is of the same opinion still.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 251 by IamJoseph, posted 05-20-2008 7:15 PM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 255 by IamJoseph, posted 05-20-2008 9:42 PM lyx2no has replied

IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 255 of 301 (467323)
05-20-2008 9:42 PM
Reply to: Message 254 by lyx2no
05-20-2008 9:10 PM


Re: Yes but.........
I know. So pls show me an unbounded entity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 254 by lyx2no, posted 05-20-2008 9:10 PM lyx2no has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 256 by lyx2no, posted 05-20-2008 9:49 PM IamJoseph has replied
 Message 257 by bluescat48, posted 05-20-2008 10:18 PM IamJoseph has not replied

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