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C.B. Edelman Guest |
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Author | Topic: Creationism, Evolution and the Public Schools | |||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Native Americans were in North America 30,000 ago, many thousands of years before any Europeans came here. Does that mean it would be OK for them to get the UN to help them kick all of us out now so they could have their land back?
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Don't be dismissive. It is irritating. I don't do anything for the sake of popularity and I don't appreciate the inference.
quote: The thief is offering to give back some of the spoils and you call this an incredible deal? If it were me, I'd be offended and it looks like the palestinians were.
quote: It makes no sense to me either. Good thing I said nothing similar. The argument has been made that Israel rightfully belongs to the Jews because they were there first-- 2000 years ago. It follows then, by the same logic, that North America belongs to the Native Americans because they were here first. So do we give it back? Should the UN carve up the US and give it back to its rightful owners? And if the UN did so, what would happen? Answer: Lots of americans would fight back-- that is, lots of americans would do precisely what the palestinians are doing and precisely what the palestinians are being criticised for doing.
quote: They are fighting for what was stolen from them. If Mexico, by some miracle, suddenly took Texas back and kicked everyone out ( except for the Mexicans already living here ) would we be fighting for freedom or for the land that was stolen? Would you then argue, as has been done in the case of Israel, that Mexico had a right to take Texas because some Mexicans already lived here? Suppose Mexico made the generous offer to return the pan-handle to the dispossessed Texans, would that make you feel better about the situation?
quote: Hang around many Israeli's? I have been lately. The hatred I've seen is pretty intense. The literature is quite incendiary.
quote: Doubtful. Israel doesn't have that much power without international support. All out slaughter would erode that support and, in fact, that very thing seems to be happening. Israel has to look good to the outside world.
quote: On stolen land. You guys seem to miss that fact. It clearly is not. They simply want to exist in peace. If anyone harms them, they will do whatever is neccessary...just like ANY government...just like any individual. ------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com
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Arachnid Inactive Member |
**sigh** i know im arguing with a rock. You can't formulate and argument with duel ideals. Are you so stupid to think that the palesinians just grew out of the ground?? I think we've exhausted the bounderies of your wit and psuedo-intelligence. You don't have anything remotely resembling knowlege about this subject. I suspect that you get the majority of your information from MTV. Living with your mother can help you live on the wages McDonalds pays you, im sure....but your world view from the deep fryer is kindergarten at best.
You have been presented with reason, logic, and facts...and your response has been childish and deliberately ignorant...i say deliberately, becasue I can't imagine anyone naturaly this stupid...(that's a compliment) You have been soundly spanked on this forum and this discussion and it's time for us to move on. Let us part amicably and say "we just don't agree" while secretly knowing in our hearts that you are a retard. I wish you well and hope you get promoted to the drive through window. [This message has been edited by Arachnid, 01-31-2003]
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John Inactive Member |
So... you really have nothing intelligent to say then?
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No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com [This message has been edited by John, 01-31-2003]
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Arachnid Inactive Member |
Not enough one-syllable words to explain it to you...so, no.
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Satcomm Inactive Member |
quote: You just proved my statement valid, regardless of whether you support McCain or not. I like McCain too. He seems like an honest politician. Probably why he's nothing more than a senator. "Progressive" = a new substitute epithet for liberal. Just go read Breaking News & Views for the Progressive Community | Common Dreams When I see house minority leaders like Nancy Pelosi running the democratic party now, I don't think moderate.
quote: Thank goodness. Although, they are in control of the state of California.
quote: I'm not sure what you mean by this.
quote: Nah. Liberalism = idiocy. ------------------What is intelligence without wisdom?
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shilohproject Inactive Member |
Hey Arachnid,
Do you think this post is in keeping with the notion of non-personal debate? In keeping with forum rules? I know that you are pretty new here, as am I, but do you think this sort of post aids your credibility? Curious,-Shiloh
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Arachnid Inactive Member |
I can appreciate your concern, and typically I would agree with you...except this discussion has only garnered hostility and personal attacks to begin with. As for the forum rules, here is a quote from the administrator.
quote:
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jdean33442 Inactive Member |
quote: What data do you have to prove indians lived here 30,000 years ago? Indians own land in the US and some are making quite a bit of scratch from it. Your point is worthless, as usual.
quote: It would be great if the native americans could get the UN to kick you out of the US. Or at least confiscate your computer.
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jdean33442 Inactive Member |
quote: Too busy cutting bread to post?
quote: Oh, why didn't you say so. I agree with everything you have to say from here on.
quote: You are progressively getting dumber by the post. I've met 5 year olds with stronger political arguements.
quote:Oh that is a scary statement. Not that it's true, but the fact your little warped mind believes the left wing has no influence. How far left do you go? quote: How about this conservative tactic. Liberals lack common sense and on a general basis, are simpleton path followers. I have a riddle for you. What does your brain and the below share in common?` ` ` ` ` ` ` Answer: They are both filled with empty space.
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shilohproject Inactive Member |
Arachnid,
Thanks for taking the time to cite the quote. Having said that, I must add that simply having no hall monitor is hardly a reason to do what is destructive to one's own purpose. The forum rules may not be enforced, but they do establish a standard we might ought to remember...all of us. One would think that in a forum such as this we would all hope to appear either like(in no particular order!): A.) Reasonable, level headed "scientific" type folks; or,B.) Reasonable, level headed "Christian" type folks; Neither of which is spoken well of by attacks, name calling, etc., even if it is completely warrented. Example, I personally disagree with your take on this particular issue, but that's okay by me. -Shiloh
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Arachnid Inactive Member |
Shilo,
You may be right, but John really IS a boob.... Don't kill me, I'm only the messenger. I'm glad you feel free to disagree with me, but I'm more glad that the state of Israel is not affected by you or those of like mind.
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Arachnid Inactive Member |
BTW Shilo,
What association do you have with the shilo project? [This message has been edited by Arachnid, 01-31-2003]
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Satcomm Inactive Member |
quote: A good portion of history is written by those who wanted to keep an accurate account of what was going on. Yes, yes, I know some history is revisionist. It's up to historians to sift through the garbage to find the gold. Archeology has a tendancy of spouting history too.
quote: I disagree. There is information and then there is opinion.
quote: I'm disappointed that you've come to that conclusion, John. I've read and reviewed the majority of the references you've posted. Wouldn't those be something not for "my position"?
quote: It's pretty clear that you are the one with that opinion. And I'll go on with further evidence of this with another one of your quotes:
quote: quote: I think it's the other way around. Except you commonly embrace the revisions of others to match your own opinion, instead of forming your own revision.
quote: That is incorrect. Everything you've sent me I've dismissed as anti-Israel or liberal rhetoric. You didn't see me dismissing the five reference books that Quetzal posted. In fact, I'm going to order them when I get the chance.
quote: This is simply absurd. You can't possibly compare the Jewish holocaust to the current government in Israel. There are too many differences. I'm sorry, I don't buy the rhetoric. It's propaganda and unreliable.
quote: Hmmm lets see: double standard - A set of principles permitting greater opportunity or liberty to one than to another. The way I see it you impose this upon yourself in this debate.
quote: Haha, I'm glad you approve. Criticize Judaism all you want, I could care less. However, we're talking about the modern state of Israel. And I was talking about militant Islamic fundamentalists who I don't trust. Let's recap on this one:
quote: I made that statement (which you so eloquently called a judgement) based on what I've read in the teachings of Islam. I also base it on my observations of Islamic fundamentalists. With that being said, there are also peaceful and secular Muslims in this world, and especially in this country. Hence I said one shouldn't judge based on what an entire group of people do, but what the actual faith teaches. If someone is a fundamental, they have a tendancy to uphold their doctrine to the letter.
quote: You said, "That they dislike having been kicked out of their country", indicating that they had a country. I corrected you.
quote: No. They were encouraged to leave by the neighboring arab nations because jews are considered great enemies to Islam.
quote: I agree with this, as they are both native to the region by definition. Both jews and arabs have immigrated to that area at one point or another.
quote: Based on historical data.
quote: It seems like yyou were hoping I would. Hence the endless debate.
quote: You are most of the time, based on your posts.
quote: Nope, because I believe they are telling the truth. A lot of historical data confirms this.
quote: But you won't accept any of the information in the books due to the fact that they can be changed?
quote: That was not always the case. Again, you are depicting the Israelis as some sort of Nazi regime.
quote: 1) Ok, by definition. However there is a difference between an army sent in to eradicate, and a police force sent in to keep the peace.2) No I did not use that. I'm making a case that Israel had justification to become a country and remain a country. The UN is beside the point. 3) I'm drawing conclusions based on observation of your behavior. I'm glad many in the U.S. are not a fans of the UN. They are an insult to our national sovereignty. quote: And the fact that you have no involvement in the situation makes it still religious and spiritual. It's God vs Anti-God and pseudo-God.
quote: Exactly. That is a poor analogy and different situation: 1) Gold and land are two very different things. Strike one.2) The difference between the Spanish and the Zionists is that the Spanish were there to pillage and conquer, whereas the Zionists were there to start a new life free of discrimination. Strike two. 3) The Spanish were conquering and the Zionists were retaliating. That's strike three, and you're out already. 4) How is that a similarity? The arabs were never made into slaves, nor were they "chased out" as a majority. If only you could hit the ball. quote: Exactly my point. Your question was irrelevant. You've proven that you distrust everything and won't even look at the data presented. It wasn't just the fact that you won't look at the military analysis data, it was the consolidation of things you've stated on the matter.
quote: This conversation is circular. I am not insisting that Israel is "blameless" and it is a nation containing human beings who have the capability to error. And I don't discount anything to the contrary of the idea that Israel has a right to exist. What is silly is that you keep insisting that those are my claims. I don't claim that Israel is telling the truth just because "they say so". I am basing my claims on historical data and philosophy. I've provided historical data, analytical data, opinion, and argument, whereas you are merely providing your own opinion and any rhetoric that supports it.
quote: Are you kidding? You are discounting everything I state and all the data I use for support. Your claims don't hold under the weight of evidence.
quote: My mistake. I meant to say Mecca, not Quraysh in regards to the jews living there.
quote: Why, because you won't bother? Well, here are a couple more history lessons for you: Jews and Arabs from WW2 to the 1967 (Six-Day) War
Joyous Israelis, Resentful Palestinians: 1967 Also, here is a link to a listing of some other prominent history sites: Subject | ipl: Information You Can Trust ------------------What is intelligence without wisdom?
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Liberal political policies made possible the following:
work for millions of people during the Great Depressionthe 5-day work week child labor laws come to mention it, any labor laws the minimum wage anti-discrimination in employment laws fair housing laws safe workplace laws environmental & clean air/water laws protection laws food safety laws product safety laws ended Jim Crow in the south "What do our opponents mean when they apply to us the label "Liberal?" If by "Liberal" they mean, as they want people to believe, someone who is soft in his policies abroad, who is against local government, and who is unconcerned with the taxpayer's dollar, then the record of this party and its members demonstrate that we are not that kind of "Liberal." But if by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties -- someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal." John Fitzgerald Kennedy"
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