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Author | Topic: Ritualised cannibalism | |||||||||||||||||||||||
metatron Inactive Member |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by TrueCreation:
[B]"I have a moral problem with cannibalism (symbolic or otherwise) except in certain survival situations. " --Even if you do want to describe it as 'ritualised cannibalism' your conserned are refuted by the fact that there is no moral inacceptability since it is entirely subjective. 'In certain survival situations' what is a subjective form of symbolism going to have anything to do with the 'survival' of anything? --Partaking in the ritual does not constitute eating his body or drinking his blood literally. --I'd still like that reference. Attend communion.
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TrueCreation Inactive Member |
"Attend communion."
--I do it every single month, your post bares absolutely no resemblance and is even contradictive. ------------------ [This message has been edited by TrueCreation, 12-18-2002]
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metatron Inactive Member |
In communion you eat+drink the sacrement, the sacrement being the "symbolic" blood and body of jc.
How much clearer can it be?.
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TrueCreation Inactive Member |
"In communion you eat+drink the sacrement, the sacrement being the "symbolic" blood and body of jc.
How much clearer can it be?."--I don't disagree with this, and this is different from what you said in this post: quote:--This 'transformation' is false. The ritual is completely symbolic and I'm not eating a persons body nor drinking anyone's body, it is symbolic of an event. Taking part in the ritual constitutes your belief in the veracity of the event and its implications toward humanity. ------------------
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metatron Inactive Member |
But that still means you take part in symbolic cannibalism. The fact that I'm no longer contesting the symbolic bit proves you've gained some ground.
But the main reason I'm not contesting the symbolic bit is because I have no faith in the effectiveness of the ritual of transmutation or whatever its called.
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TrueCreation Inactive Member |
"But that still means you take part in symbolic cannibalism. The fact that I'm no longer contesting the symbolic bit proves you've gained some ground.
But the main reason I'm not contesting the symbolic bit is because I have no faith in the effectiveness of the ritual of transmutation or whatever its called."--Again, even if you want to call it 'symbolic cannibalism', 'our concerned are refuted by the fact that there is no moral inacceptability since it is entirely subjective.' --There are no literal implications to communion. Its a reflection on the event of the crucifixion of Christ. Even symbolically we do not 'eat' his flesh. We eat the bread which symbolizes Christs death on the cross. It doesn't symbolize a cannibalistic event or anything of that likeness. ------------------
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metatron Inactive Member |
The theory behind the ritual is that power in this case holiness is transferred from the eatee to the eater. Ignore the phrases that accompany it and simply observe the ritual itself. The symbolic flesh of jc or the real flesh of another tribesman, the belief system is no different.
[This message has been edited by Metatron, 12-18-2002]
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TrueCreation Inactive Member |
"The theory behind the ritual is that power in this case holiness is transferred from the eatee to the eater. Ignore the phrases that accompany it and simply observe the ritual itself. The symbolic flesh of jc or the real flesh of another tribesman, the belief system is no different."
--Nothing is transferred. The ritual is done not to gain anything, it is done "in rememberence of me[Christ]". No cannibalism, symbolic or not. There is no moral inconsistency here. -------------------
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metatron Inactive Member |
If there is no link to cannibalism why eat it?.
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TrueCreation Inactive Member |
"If there is no link to cannibalism why eat it?."
--Because, taking part in the ritual constitutes your belief in the veracity of the event of Christs crucifixion and its implications toward humanity. Its a 'do this in remembrance of me' thing. ------------------ [This message has been edited by TrueCreation, 12-18-2002]
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metatron Inactive Member |
My whole point centres around the eating, without the eating the ritual means nothing. The action of eating brings you closer to your god (or gods), or transfers power to the eater. The "used to remember him by" bit is nothing more than part of the mystic writings that accompany the ritual. And the ritual itself is about growing closer to your deity of choice through consuming in this case the symbolic flesh and blood of one of the probably mythological characters who appears in a (badly translated and inaccurate) book.
I look at the ritual through an atheists eye's, not via the filter of religious programming. Its no more or less valid to me than the spinning of a prayer wheel or the shaking of knuckle bones by a witch doctor to drive out evil spirits. But, drape as much expensive cloth on the alter and spout all the sermons you want the sacrificial offering is the symbolic flesh and blood of a man (who might have existed).
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Karl Inactive Member |
This is my body, this is my blood.
And arguments will reign over exactly what Jesus means here until the cows come home. Be that as it may, Metatron, you're just rehashing an ancient Roman accusation against Christians. We do not gain Christ's holiness by eating His body and His blood. He has promised that as partakers in this remembrance of Him, He will be present with us. The rubrics of the Church of England, for example, allow that someone who is unable to physically receive the elements is nonetheless a partaker in Christ's Body and Blood. Similarly, one who receives physically but does not do so inwardly is not a partaker in Christ's Body and Blood. Because of possible superstition about the elements in former days (which would be directly analogous to your cannibal analogy), where the elements were used, for example, to cast spells or ploughed into the ground to attempt to increase fertility, the rubrics also require that all the remaining consecrated elements are consumed by the priest after communion. The elements are not magic talismans. Nevertheless, there is something to be gained from your comparison in the OP. Religion generally, and Christianity just as much, are full of allusion, symbolism, metaphor and so on. The idea that by eating something one gains something of the nature of the thing eaten is a common concept throughout humanity. Why not draw on that common human concept to illustrate spiritual feeding by God?
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metatron Inactive Member |
You're right "you are what you eat" is a very common phrase. A worrying one as well if you're eating habits are as bad as mine. For instance we get fed a lot corned beef in the ccokhouse which we invariably refer to as "smashed monkey", spam is also known as "pink death".
The disposal of the extra sacrement via priests I find to be honest very similar to guarding nail parings, hair, excrement and such from the prying hands of voodoo magicians.
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TrueCreation Inactive Member |
"My whole point centres around the eating, without the eating the ritual means nothing. The action of eating brings you closer to your god (or gods), or transfers power to the eater. "
--Your still misunderstanding the fact that you are thinking that there is some sort of 'transfer of power'. There is none, it is done to remember his sacrifice. We do not 'gain' anything directly from doing the ritual. No cannibalism, or even symbolic cannibalism. I'm just reading the words, I'm not filtering it through anything. Jesus said, 'This is my body, this is my blood.' Though even at the time, he made it clear that he was holding bread and a drink, thusly it is symbolic. -------------------
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metatron Inactive Member |
So you are saying that jc said "remember me by eating this symbolic representation of my flesh and blood".
Thats still cannibalistic.
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