Justify damnation, dammit!

There is a scripture that might please you that I have found. I'm not saying it's a "fix it" but if you're willing to trust God, then you might silently read and heed.Even though this is said in Romans, concerning unbelievers in Israel; Romans;10:03: For I bare them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.Even though that is said, there is an instance where it seems that God's way COULD be to send people to hell, but look at what it then says; Romans;11:26: And so all Israel shall be saved.....11;30: For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.And another scripture is; "Nothing shall be impossible with God".So certainly there's an instance here, where all is not lost, but it APPEARS lost. Like it APPEARED they were thirsty and hungry in the desert. THINK!!! - Here it speaks of righteousness - yet people are being saved through special circumstances.Now I know you have insisted that my "righteouss" talk is connected with damnation, but here's an instance were it ain't necessarily so! What I meant, is that the "least" as in - the lowest, the poorest, with nothing etc.. - when they are mis-treated, we mis-treat God.So now you see B2P, the God we believe in isn't necessarily the big ol' evil condemner he might APPEAR to be. I hope you can see now that God has his reasons, with this example. So you can see that in THIS God - yes, we CAN trust.

I understand what you're saying. I never believed that God was a tyrant that just toyed with people; therefore I knew he wouldn't send people to hell and such for little things that He KNEW they would do in their lifetime. The scriptures you read just confirmed my point of view further. Because when you come down to it and imagine an all-knowing, all-righteous God, then you don't see someone sending people to hell for misinformation. No, the true God is much mighter and much more understanding and just than to do something like that.

More on the orgin of the term 'hell':http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/tbhell.htmlThe Bible tells us to test all things, and in Revelation it warns people who decide to change Scripture. This may be an instance of that.It is very possible that there is no hell. The only way to accept such a fate for an unbeliever is to trust God's wisdom above ours. But at the same time, I believe healthy skeptism about modern day interpretation is beneficial.Have fun.

BTW - I had a big debate with SleepingDragon, and I do NOT believe God knowing our outcome makes him responsible. So you say right when you say that it's what "we" do in our lifetime. That is why I believe we are responsible for our actions.If you think not believing is a little thing, then that's your opinion I suppose. I also trust that God knows what he has said and done. I still recognise Christ's words though B2P - I still think Christ is the way - like he said.So - I guess it's up to you as to what you think. The good thing is that the bible says not to judge, so fortunately for us, we really do not know who is headed upward because we are not God.This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 08-09-2004 12:35 PM

Technichally it's not His responisibility that we do these things. However, what gets me(and lots of people) is why he would allow them to be born if He knew that was their fate. But then again, it may be because He's respecting the free will of the parents as well as the fact that the particular sperm would enter the egg without any intervention. I believe that Christ is the way. But He's for everyone, not just those fortunate enough to be born fated to believe in Christianity. Agreed, so people shouldn't be assuming that nonbelievers will go to hell.

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Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit. http://www.BadPreacher.5u.com (incomplete, but look anyway!)

Who here has though? The only two left standing in this thread is you and I. We seem to agree that we shouldn't judge. Well, if all Israel is saved (as quoted) - it would be a bizarre position if we as christians started to claim having sole access to heaven - and the keys thereof. What about Jews, and my quote?So even if christians (if we are called this as we believe in Christ not christianity, or atleast I do) - even if they claim sole access, there are warnings in the bible to not boast. To be honest, these arguments are most often produced by unbelievers - in an attempt to show that they can "refute God". Hope your not gonna change sides!!!!

Okay, so we agree, and my position stands. I don't know if I'll be preaching this(at least not at first, because I'm sure they'll do whatever it takes to get a non-conservative thrown out of any church. I have to lay low for the first year or so) but my belief has been further confirmed:Non-Christians can, somehow, enter heaven. Still gonna promote Christ as the way, though. No, of course not. Atheists have no idea what they're talking about when they say that. (Yeah, that's right. Do somethin'!)But please, answer the arguement or admit that you don't know.

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Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit. http://www.BadPreacher.5u.com (incomplete, but look anyway!)