Reagan May Have Died, Cannot Recall At This Time

Anybody have some commentary on the death of Ronald Reagan? Any glowing, almost messianic praise from the conservative camp? Accusations of Anti-Christery from the liberals? "Bedtime for Bonzo" jokes from guys like me?

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"He supposed that the intent of the Gospels was to teach people, among other things, to be merciful, even to the lowest of the low. But the Gospels actually taught this: Before you kill somebody, make absolutely sure he isn't well connected."
-Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

In a state of the union address Ronald Reagan put all the paperwork and amendments for the medicare reform . He piled 6 inch thick reams of paper work one by one on the desk in front of him. After putting about the 12th volume on his desk he poked his head from behind the enormous stack and said.." You expect me to read all of this?" I thought it was making a good point about how much BS and paperwork the US govt generates at times. edit typos.This message has been edited by 1.61803, 06-07-2004 02:06 PM

I take great offense at the title of this thread. Alzheimer's runs in my family on both sides. I helped my parents care for my grandmother who suffered from it during her last years. It is a cruel disease, and the likelihood is that I will one day suffer the same fate.You enjoy taking cheap shots at people who can't defend themselves, do you?

Berberry:You really expect Yankees to act according to a code of honor or to show courtesy or compassion?Peace. Ab.

Actually, it's a reference to the Iran/Contra scandal, not alzheimers.But yes, for what it's worth, I do enjoy taking cheap shots at people who can't defend themselves.

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"He supposed that the intent of the Gospels was to teach people, among other things, to be merciful, even to the lowest of the low. But the Gospels actually taught this: Before you kill somebody, make absolutely sure he isn't well connected."
-Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

Yankees? I live... what, maybe 300 miles north of you?Geography aside, I'm so a Red Sox man.

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"He supposed that the intent of the Gospels was to teach people, among other things, to be merciful, even to the lowest of the low. But the Gospels actually taught this: Before you kill somebody, make absolutely sure he isn't well connected."
-Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

You often provide a humorous touch to arguments against intolerance on this forum and I appreciate that. However, I consider insensitivity to be just as bad as intolerance, and I must say that I'm surprised at you. I thought you were better than that.I think most anyone seeing the title to this thread is going to think of Alzheimer's, not Iran-Contra. IMO there is much more than IC about which to criticize Ronald Reagan. However, out of respect for his family I will not offer any criticism of the man until a decent period of mourning has passed. Maybe, as Absholam seems to imply, this is a Southern thing. For whatever reason, though, I will reserve my judgement of Reagan for another day and another thread.

Re: "Yankees? I live... what, maybe 300 miles north of you?"Yeah, "Yankees."I grew up 90 miles north of Berberry, and where we grew up you didn't talk disrespectfully of those who have passed away; especially not during the period of mourning (and it has absolutely nothing to do with one's political viewpoints regarding the deceased or his bereaved family). However, I have noticed over the 56 years I've spent on this miserable planet that you Yankees don't live by the same code of conduct as most of the rest of the world. Seems anything to garner attention or ego-inflation is kosher to you folks.Peace. Ab.This message has been edited by Abshalom, 06-07-2004 02:54 PM

Well, thanks and sorry you feel that way, I guess. Have you considered the possibility that perhaps alzheimers is simply a hot-button topic with you? I'm not saying it shouldn't be, mind you, but I think you're over-reacting."I cannot recall at this time" was practically Reagan's catch-phrase during Iran/Contra. It's one of the most-used Reagan parodies that exist. Given that the man once co-starred with a monkey, that's saying something.Honestly, I'm sorry that you're offended, but not for anything I've done, if you dig.

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"He supposed that the intent of the Gospels was to teach people, among other things, to be merciful, even to the lowest of the low. But the Gospels actually taught this: Before you kill somebody, make absolutely sure he isn't well connected."
-Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

Well all right then, suh. Enjoy yoah mint julep on Peachtree Lane in... y'know, Evansville. And where I come from, we don't bullshit around and suddenly respect a total bastard just because he accomplished the astounding task of not breathing anymore.Someone wants respect in death, they should earn it in life.And yeah, before you ask, I hope people go around saying what a total bastard I was after I die, if in fact they considered me to be a total bastard.However, out of respect for the poor grieving family, I'll be sure to extend my condolences to Nancy, should she happen to show up on . What can I say, we can't all measure up to your standards of politeness."You Yankees", honestly. How about "Dan, you're an asshole"? Or am I suddenly the representative of all people north of the Mason-Dixon?Because if I am, that's cool. I'd be lying if I said I didn't have any uses for a 100-million-strong private militia.

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"He supposed that the intent of the Gospels was to teach people, among other things, to be merciful, even to the lowest of the low. But the Gospels actually taught this: Before you kill somebody, make absolutely sure he isn't well connected."
-Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

A guy I know from college writes a conservative blog; it's funny to see him blasting liberals for taking political potshots at Reagan, when not a day before, he was using the occasion to advance his own political agenda, before the guy's body was even cold.

quote:

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The evil that men do lives after them;
The good is oft interred with their bones;
- Marc Antony, Shakespeare's Julius Caesar, III-ii

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It seems like the reverse is true today - if you're a dead guy, lord forbid anybody point out that you were a man and not a god, and that you may have made mistakes or made decisions that not everybody agreed with.Check out Jay Reding.com if you want to see examples, Dan. It's exactly what you're talking about, pretty much.

I remember Reagan as the chief executive who informed his hapless constituents during his first State of the Union address that he intended to limit welfare to the 'truly needy,' prior to presiding over a corporate feeding frenzy that gutted the American economy. I also remember him as the delusional maniac who delivered the 'We begin bombing in five minutes' speech. Predictably, neither of these heinous soundbites are being aired during Reagan's eulogies.I hope it's clear that I shared Reagan's loathing for the Iron Curtain totalitarians, but I realized that more than rhetoric was going to be necessary to bring down the Soviet power structure. In addition, I thought it hypocritical that Reagan railed against communist fraud, waste, and aggression when these were hallmarks of his own domestic as well as foreign policies. When the bottom fell out of the Eastern European economies and the communists fled, I was sickened to see American flag wavers acting like they had something to do with the long-overdue revolutions.We should remember it was another Republican president, Eisenhower, who missed the chance to stand up to the Soviets when it mattered. When Imre Nagy took power in Hungary in '56 and started to pry Moscow's fingers from its throat, the Soviets retaliated with a brutality that should have spurred action from the US. Unfortunately, Western eyes pretended to be much more interested in whether the Suez Canal would remain British. Thirty thousand Hungarians died in the resulting slaughter, most convinced until the end that the US (so recently at South Korea's rescue from the communists) would not abandon them. My mother came from Scotland to America in '57, and happened to sail with many Hungarians who had probably been refugees for several months. Nearly all of them were headed for Canada, since they wouldn't be caught dead on American soil. Twelve years later the Soviet tanks rolled into Prague, well aware that the US was too busy murdering rice farmers to take issue with the brand of communists that had jets and missiles.Ironically, President Carter was more responsible for the fall of the Soviets than Reagan, since he was the one who tooled up the mujaheedin during the USSR's protracted war in Afghanistan. This stretched the already-precarious Soviet budget to the breaking point and led to the Kremlin's financial and political bankruptcy. Try not to draw parallels to another fading superpower's crippling involvement in a war with a Central Asian country, okay?regards,
Esteban Hambre

Yeah, that's about the size of it. Reagan seems to have become pretty much an untouchable, holy dead man. *spooky music*Which is silly to me, because like it or not he was a very important public figure, who affected all of us for positive or negative. Everybody's going to have something to say about him, and it's ridiculous to think that everybody should only have good things to say after he's gone.This does not, of course, mean running up to Nancy Reagan and yelling, "YOUR HUSBAND WAS A DICK!" But it does mean being willing to share that thought in... oh, say, a public forum where there are others who were affected by the bloated sack of crap dead man in question.This message has been edited by Dan Carroll, 06-07-2004 04:01 PM

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"He supposed that the intent of the Gospels was to teach people, among other things, to be merciful, even to the lowest of the low. But the Gospels actually taught this: Before you kill somebody, make absolutely sure he isn't well connected."
-Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

crashfrog writes:

quote:

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...if you're a dead guy, lord forbid anybody point out that you were a man and not a god...

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That's not at all what I'm saying, crash. I already said there is much about which to criticize Reagan. However, it goes against everything I believe to criticize a man or woman during the period when family and friends are mourning their death. I would observe the same formality no matter who died, except perhaps for a murderer or rapist. There are plenty of ex-presidents who I would be more than happy to condemn publicly, but I would ignore the period of mourning for none of them.But even that wasn't the point of my original post. I took offense at the title to this thread. The IC scandal did not instantly pop to mind, although Dan is correct, I do remember the quote and I remember how it was repeated endlessly. The IC scandal occurred almost two decades ago, however; it isn't fresh in my memory.Since the topic has been opened, I will offer a thought or two about Nancy: when Reagan was in office I thought she was perhaps the most shallow and self-centered first lady ever. Since Reagan became sick with Alzheimer's I've seen another side of her and I tip my hat to her. She's been through hell these past years (I know this from my own experiences with my grandmother) and she deserves the respect of anyone who cares about the victims of cruel diseases like Alzheimer's. I have no doubt that she will be an eloquent spokesperson for stem cell research now that she will have time to devote to the cause. I have a personal stake in this research and I welcome and appreciate anyone who is willing to speak out in favor of it, especially someone who has the sympathy of so many millions of people as Nancy does.