Reagan May Have Died, Cannot Recall At This Time

How about to those who funded the murderers and rapists?Say, with money made from sales of nuclear weapons?

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"He supposed that the intent of the Gospels was to teach people, among other things, to be merciful, even to the lowest of the low. But the Gospels actually taught this: Before you kill somebody, make absolutely sure he isn't well connected."
-Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

Am I really being that unclear? I said that I would observe the formality. I didn't say that you had to. If you consider Reagan a murderer or if you think he knowingly funded murderers and you can't wait a few days to say so then, by all means, knock yourself out.I repeat, my problem was with the title to this thread. I added that I would wait until after the period of mourning to offer my criticism of the man. If you have a problem with that then it's your problem, not mine.

Ber:You're wasting your time arguing honor with the callous-hearted. Your time would be better spent praying for or pleading the case of stem cell research and other medical/scientific research that hopefully will lead to cures for the cruel diseases that ravage our aging population.Peace. Ab.

Oy, I'm just trying to see where the line of respect is, here. I don't have a problem with you waiting however long you want, or never saying anything at all. But you do seem to have felt the need to pop on the thread and comment on the subject of breaching formality, and I'm just curious as to how far it extends. Us Yankees are a nasty breed.Fortunately, my vast Yankee army (which I command, apparently) will be storming on down south pretty soon to cut off Evansville's supply lines, just for shits and giggles.This message has been edited by Dan Carroll, 06-07-2004 05:12 PM

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"He supposed that the intent of the Gospels was to teach people, among other things, to be merciful, even to the lowest of the low. But the Gospels actually taught this: Before you kill somebody, make absolutely sure he isn't well connected."
-Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

Dan Carroll writes:

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But you do seem to have felt the need to pop on the thread and comment on the subject of breaching formality, and I'm just curious as to how far it extends.

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No, I didn't comment on the subject of breaching formality. That was Ab, and even though I understand where he's coming from I don't impose my standards on anyone else. I mentioned what my standard is, but I don't think I ever said that others must behave in the same way.This formality of observing a mourning period may indeed be a product of Southern upbringing. I never thought of it before. I've travelled to the North many times but I can't recall ever attending a funeral up there so I really don't know what the standards are.I will add, though, that even if I thought Reagan was himself a murderer, I wouldn't say so until after the mourning period was over. That would have nothing to do with him, rather it would have everything to do with respect for the family, in particular Nancy. If I thought she was no better than him I might ignore the mourning period, but that isn't the case.

Amen.
I may live in the north. But that is simply my current location. This is rude, one should not critisize the dead. If you fools couldnt get it off your chests while he was alive, then you are doing nothing more than taking cheap shots. The very least you could do is allow a time of mourning.Doesnt say very much for your character.

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This is rude, one should not critisize the dead.

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It must be interesting listening to you discuss historical events.

What exactly makes you think I wasn't saying anything bad about Reagan when he was alive? I'm sorry, I'm still mourning the victims of "the moral equivalent of our founding fathers", and wondering why a disease that has now reached pandemic proportions wasn't worth researching, just because the highest number of victims at the time happened to be gay.As far as mourning goes, Reagan can wait his turn.

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"He supposed that the intent of the Gospels was to teach people, among other things, to be merciful, even to the lowest of the low. But the Gospels actually taught this: Before you kill somebody, make absolutely sure he isn't well connected."
-Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

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This is rude, one should not critisize the dead.

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I'll have to remember this next time Syamsu claims Darwin was a racist

The Iran-Contra scandal was also a nice piece of work. It is still one of the most wonderful examples of hypocrisy that one can point to in U.S. politics.But this thread illustrates a disturbing trend. This "Don't criticize Reagan (and more importantly, his policies) because he is dead" is akin to the "Don't criticize George Bush because we are at war and that would make you unpatriotic". Meanwhile, U.S. talking heads blabber endlessly about spreading "freedom" around the world while at the same time statements like these condemn the excercise of one of said freedoms. I think it would be more honest to say that you can be any way you want, be anything you like, believe what you want, and speak freely...so long as it agrees with whatever everyone else wants...dare to be different by conforming...now pass me my Starbucks coffee Hambre..I am on my way to buy my new Nke's and shop at Wal-mart..am I a rebel or what?

I'm kind of curious to know if I'm the only one here who had actually kind of forgotten he was still alive...

I hope I am not mistaken as having said that Reagan should not be criticised because he is dead. I simply acknowledged that some people, myself included, will observe a period of mourning for those we respect or those whose families we respect. It may be a custom unique to the South, but in any case it is one I rather like and one I hate to see others abandon. I don't wish to impose this formality on anyone and I certainly don't want to stifle free speech.One thing I will say now is that I've had about enough of the wall-to-wall coverage in the news. The networks should save some of it for Friday, which is after all the national day of mourning. The coverage I've been seeing has become so over-the-top that it's beginning to border on idolatry, and that in itself is a form of disrespect imo.

Hi berberry,
I do understand your point. But this is not what is actually happening in the news. It is not about respect. It is not even the lack of criticism of Reagan that is my problem. It is that the media is presenting Reagan as some kind of saint who did no wrong and not reporting that he was controversial when he was president and was involved in several huge scandals. This is an activist agenda driven historical revisionism that is being promoted by the media as respect for the dead. If the respect you appear to envision were to be observed, they would merely report that he had died, have issued the statement made by his wife and drop it from the news. If Reagan's last wish was to be splashed all over the media then so be it...but the criticism of his policies and government would also have to be presented. Not the fairy tale that is being aired now. Imagine when Clinton dies if the media out of "respect" for the dead omits that he was controversial, that there was the Lewinsky scandal, that he oversaw lots of brain dead policies. Would this be ok? When we start to view elected officials as somehow "above" the sweating masses and beyond reproach then we might as well admit that our democracy is a charade.

I actually only knew he was still alive because Nancy Reagan has been pushing for stem cell research. I also work a bit on Alzheimer's (a side project)so Reagan's name sometimes comes up....I could not remember if Ford was dead or not

It's not about terminating criticism. It's about a temporary postponement, IN A PUBLIC FORUM, of flippant, rude, and callous remarks about a recently departed person. It's just a matter of good taste and social grace which apparently is beyond the comprehension of some folks.If it's balls to the walls, caustic criticism that you want regarding Nixon, Ford, (president deleted,) Bush One, Bush Two, or any of the other puppets of the vast right wing conspiracy that's raping our country, I'm game anytime. If it's harsh jokes and innuendo about politicians you want, I can hold my own in that court too. Nevertheless, I will be temporarily suspending public criticism of Mr. Reagan while he lays in state.Just because some folks in this forum, like some folks in the media, politics, bars, burger doodles, and warehouses across the country want to take this opportunity to slease-ball a recently deceased president doesn't mean we all share the same abyssmal tendencies.Peace. Ab.