How old are you?

buzsaw writes:

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Sixty eight. Old enough to observe the changes in:

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5. Moral decline. You younguns haven't a clue on that one.

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Yeah, like segregation, miscegenation, husbands couldn't be accused of raping their wives, gays were considered psychotic, and an accusation of Communism was all it took to destroy a person.

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9. To remember when every school child sang "God Bless America," and "My Country, Tis Of Thee," America the Beautiful, Star Spangled Banner and Battle Hymn of the Republic" all acknowledging Jehovah God.

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You sang all four verses of the Star-Spangled Banner? Wow...the poem doesn't mention god until the final verse. Same thing with My Country, Tis of Thee...no mention of god until the final, fourth verse.By the way, you do know that the tune to which the Star-Spangled Banner is set is an old English drinking song, "To Anacreon in Heaven," yes?

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11. To remember when landlords could rent to whomever they wished,

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Especially to keep them darkies out of the neighborhood lest they drive the property values down....

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employers could hire or fire whomever they wished,

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Because we all know women don't do well with numbers....

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and the size of government was a a fraction of what it is today per capita.

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And we had massive unemployment and poverty. Would you like to get rid of FEMA and let the individual states handle disasters? How about dismantling the Centers for Disease Control or are polio and Legionnaire's disease things that we can live with? Because of Medicare, the US has the highest life expectancy for people over 65. It was the federal government that banned lead in gasoline, DDT, PCBs, and CFCs. The Bureau of Economic Analysis is what lets our businesses know how the economy is doing. Let's dump the Consumer Product Safety Commission, food labels, the GI Bill, the Interstate Highway System, Meals on Wheels, the National Crime Information Center, and the Peace Corps, all developed in the last 60 years.Yeah, life was so much better then.------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

buzsaw writes:

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Rrhain, Zephyr and Schrafinator, thankfully folks who think like you people are still a shade in the minority.

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You mean most people in this country want to get rid of the CDC, the EPA, FEMA, Medicare, the Consumer Product Safety Commission, the GI Bill, etc., etc.?If that were the case, then they'd be gone already. But instead, they keep getting re-approved.Are you saying that most people in this country want to prevent people of different races from getting married? They want to return to segregation? They want to return to the days when a man could rape his wife with inpunity?Do you really think that people want to return to a time when the average life expectancy is in the 40s as it was not 100 years ago?

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When the balance tips your way, America, as we know it will be history

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Indeed. That is because our society will be more just. The Pledge of Allegiance ends with "liberty and justice for all."What part of "for all" don't you understand?

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and you people along with the rest of us Americans can join the multitudes of the planet's majority oppressed, exterminated, imprisoned impoverished and otherwise generally miserable inhabitants of planet earth.

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Strange that you say that, considering that the US is the last superpower still standing. And all that as the country becomes more and more beholden to the ideas of liberty. Look at how far we progressed as a country since the 70s when abortion was legalised and homosexuality was removed from the DSM. Look at how far we progressed as a country since the 60s when things like the Voting Rights Act was passed and miscegenation laws were overturned.------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

buzsaw writes:

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The doctrine of an imminent rapture, i.e. that the gathering up of the Christians into heaven has always been imminent, is not consistent with what Jesus, the apostles and the prophets taught.

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Incorrect. The exact opposite was true. The end of the world was supposed to happen Real Soon Now according to Jesus and the rest of the lot who wrote the Bible:Matthew 16:28, 23:36, 24:34, 26:64
Mark 9:1, 13:30, 14:62
Luke 9:27, 21:32
John 21:22
Philippians 4:5
1 Thessalonians 4:17, 5:23
Hebrews 1:2, 10:37
James 5:8
1 Peter 1:20, 4:7
1 John 2:18
1 John 4:3
Revelation 1:1, 1:3, 3:11, 22:7, 22:12, 22:20Note that when some context would be appropriate to understand the meaning of the specific verse, I have included it:Matthew 16:28: Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.Matthew 23:36: Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
23:37: O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
23:38: Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
23:39: For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.Matthew 24:34: Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
24:35: Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
24:36: But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.Matthew 26:62: And the high priest arose, and said unto him, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee?
26:63: But Jesus held his peace, And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
26:64: Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.Mark 9:1: And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.Mark 13:30: Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
13:31: Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
13:32: But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.Mark 14:60: And the high priest stood up in the midst, and asked Jesus, saying, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee?
14:61: But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?
14:62: And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.Luke 9:27: But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.Luke 21:31: So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
21:32: Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
21:33: Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.John 21:22: Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.Philippians 4:5: Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.1 Thessalonians 4:15: For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
4:16: For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
4:17: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.1 Thessalonians 5:23: And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.Hebrews 1:1: God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
1:2: Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;Hebrews 10:36: For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
10:37: For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.James 5:7: Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.
5:8: Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.1 Peter 1:19: But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
1:20: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,1 Peter 4:7: But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.1 John 2:17: And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
2:18: Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.1 John 4:3: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.Revelation 1:1: The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
1:2: Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
1:3: Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.Revelation 3:1: And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
[...]
3:11: Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.Revelation 22:6: And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.
22:7: Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
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22:12: And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
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22:20: He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.I especially like 1 John 4:3: This means that the antichrist has been around for about 2000 years. How long will it be before the trap is sprung?

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Your charge that Christians are rejoicing and estatic about war is false Christophobic hatespeak.

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Incorrect. It is a direct observation. Or do you not remember the Secretary of the Interior under Reagan, James Watt, who directly said that we should not worry about caring for the environment since it would help to bring on the end of the world? I should point out that Santorum (the same guy who has compared gays to pedophiles) seems to think the same thing.Now, do all Christians agree with this sentiment? Of course not. But to say that there aren't significant numbers of Christians, and powerful ones, at that, who don't think that we are living in the end times and find things like the various wars we are in as signs of the end, thus being at least party joyful that this means that the King is returning, to say that is disingenuous at best.

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What I said clearly is that there's a moral decline, rise in crime and disintegration of the home.

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But it isn't true. Things have been getting better. The only time we ever see things getting worse is when the conservatives get into power. Crime, pre-marital sex, abortion, all those things were declining under Clinton and increasing under Reagan.------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

maverick writes:

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just to clear something up..
the economy was fucked up before 9/11.

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...precisely according to that evil Gray Davis' plan! Bwa-ha-ha!That's right...it was Gray Davis that convinced Enron to manipulate the energy market, thus costing California billions! It was Gray Davis that caused 9/11, thus accelerating an already declining economy including a collapse in the airline industry! It was Gray Davis that caused the dot.com bubble to burst!Therefore, we must impeach Gray Davis!------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

buzsaw responds to me:

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What he was saying here, is that the generation which sees these things (like Israel back in control of Jerusalem and end of Gentile times) shall not pass (pass away) till all is fulfilled.

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Incorrect. He is not talking about some future generation. He is talking about that generation...the ones he is speaking to directly, right there, right then. Some of those people to whom he was directly speaking would live to see the end of the world.That was nearly 2,000 years ago. Are they still alive?

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I'm interpreting this in view of other things he and the prophets said. You can make scripture appear to say just about anything you want it to say by isolating statements like this.

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That's why I didn't isolate them but provided you with two dozen examples. It was not an isolated instance. The New Testament was written with the idea that the world was going to end Real Soon Now.------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!