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Author Topic:   The Three Kinds of Creationists
dwise1
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Posts: 5112
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.7


(2)
Message 34 of 432 (657252)
03-27-2012 3:06 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by bridgebuilder
03-27-2012 2:30 AM


There will be no genuine agreement between me and the evolutionists unless I totally give up any belief in a Higher Being; or they consider the possibility that a Higher Being may have orchestrated the creation of the universe. Neither will happen. But at least the latter side engaged in the debate. The silence from the creos is deafening.

No, the creos will never be able to effectively respond. They depend on a narrowly defined set of premises that just simply do not exist. So by their own narrowly defined set of premises, God does not exist. OK, let us allow them to live in the Hell that they themselves have defined for themselves -- with hope, some of them can become atheists and then have some remote chance of learning the truth -- assuming that they can overcome the complete and utter bullshit lies they had been taught about atheists and atheism.

OK, "evolutionists". Just what the frak is that supposed to mean? I've studied "creation science" since circa 1981. I know all too well what kind of utter bullshit the creationists have been trying to foist onto the American public. "Evolutionist" is a purely creationist term. So, as you are using that term, just what the frak is evolutionist supposed to mean?

OK, here's what I have seen "evolutionist" to mean. Creationists, whom you typified as "creos", define anybody who accepts evolution as an "evolutionist". And furthermore, they (the "creos") typify those "evolutionists" as being atheists, anti-religionists, anti-Christians and all kind of mean ugly nasty things. Bullshit! Many of those "atheist, anti-religion, anti-Christian" "evolutionist" are in fact believing, practicing Christians. Dr. Kenneth Miller, a practicing Catholic creationist is also an "evolutionist." Duh???

There will be no genuine agreement between me and the evolutionists unless I totally give up any belief in a Higher Being; or they consider the possibility that a Higher Being may have orchestrated the creation of the universe. Neither will happen.

Bullshit! Unless, of course, you are in reality a stupid creationist, in which case you have damned yourself.

OK, so just what the frak is an "evolutionist"? Until you can define just exactly what an "evolutionist" is and what exactly you are, your bullshit is just exactly that, bullshit!

The scientific side has been expressed and presented very well. Are you able to do the same for your side as well?


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dwise1
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Posts: 5112
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.7


(2)
Message 409 of 432 (658921)
04-11-2012 1:47 AM
Reply to: Message 401 by Percy
04-10-2012 8:54 PM


Re: The Knowledgeable Creationist
Over the years, I've formed an opinion about honest creationists, that they do not last long, because they either withdraw from discussion upon learning that their position has problems or they eventually give up on creationism and sometimes even join the other side. My first impulse was to state the same opinion of knowledgeable creationists -- and for the most part the same does apply -- but upon reflection I see there's more involved.

We can say that there are two kinds of knowledgeable creationists: honest ones and dishonest one. OK, we could talk about a third kind who is severely delusional, but I would tend to lump those with the dishonest ones. Also, by "creationist", I mean those of the "creation science" persuasion rather than anyone who believes in Divine Creation, such as extremely effective anti-creationist and self-described creationist (ie, believer in Divine Creation, being a practicing Roman Catholic) Dr. Ken Miller.

An honest knowledgeable creationist will not last long on forums such as this, because the problems with his position and arguments will very quickly become apparent to him and he will need to deal with them. Whichever path he ends up taking, he will most likely retreat from forum participation since he cannot in good conscience continue to argue for things that he knows are wrong. In rare cases, he might continue to participate in order to work things out in his own mind, but I would not expect that to continue for very long.

A dishonest knowledgeable creationist would also not be expected to participate on this forum. Examples are most leading creationists, such as Hovind, Gish, Morris, etc, plus many highly active local creationists. Although highly knowledgeable, they remain dedicated to perverting that knowledge in service to their god (arguably the Great Deceiver, but since I'm an atheist, I don't believe in that Christian god either). The reason why we will not see them here is that they know from long and bitter experience that their claims are false and that in a fair discussion they have no hope of success -- eg, they will push ardently for a creationist-style verbal circus debate while at the same time absolutely refuse to engage in an on-line written debate where their opponents have time to research their claims and the audience can see exactly what claims they're making and be able to check on those claims. Also, they know that they must avoid knowledgeable opponents like the plague; eg, a local activist will bully and mock an opponent mercilessly, until he suddenly discovers that that opponent is knowledgeable, whereupon he immediately starts playing super-nice and tries to disengage as quickly as possible.

So neither kind of knowledgeable creationist can be expected to last here long. OK, that "third" kind, the highly delusional knowledgeable creationist, may stick it out longer because he's just simply, due to his delusion, clueless of the situation. But how long can he keep that up?

So all that leaves us with are the creationists who are not knowledgeable, who don't know what they're talking about. Protected by their ignorance, they can endure.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 401 by Percy, posted 04-10-2012 8:54 PM Percy has seen this message

Replies to this message:
 Message 413 by foreveryoung, posted 04-11-2012 2:49 PM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5112
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.7


(3)
Message 415 of 432 (658986)
04-11-2012 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 413 by foreveryoung
04-11-2012 2:49 PM


Re: The Knowledgeable Creationist
Projecting again, I see.

And your continued presence here supports my last paragraph:

DWise1 writes:

So all that leaves us with are the creationists who are not knowledgeable, who don't know what they're talking about. Protected by their ignorance, they can endure.

I have been studying "creation science" since 1981 and been involved in on-line discussion since circa 1987, having cut my teeth, so to speak, on CompuServe; a number of my webpages started as essays I had posted on CompuServe. I have observed much in those years, which has shaped my "attitude" and which I just shared. Including the observation that "evolutionists" last much longer than creationists do, because 1) the evidence is on our side and 2) unlike creationists, we do not need to fear knowledge of nor thinking about science, evolution, religion, etc.

Now, if you happen to have some specific comments to make about specific points in what I had written, then do please present them. If instead you just want to complain about it without even trying to think, then you have already given us all the information we need about you and your own attitude, which is sadly typical.

Edited by dwise1, : Last two paragraphs

Edited by dwise1, : ... and the horse you rode in on!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 413 by foreveryoung, posted 04-11-2012 2:49 PM foreveryoung has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 421 by foreveryoung, posted 04-12-2012 11:33 PM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5112
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.7


(3)
Message 422 of 432 (659152)
04-13-2012 12:12 AM
Reply to: Message 421 by foreveryoung
04-12-2012 11:33 PM


Re: The Knowledgeable Creationist
Please take a closer look. That image in your mirror. It's not me. It's you.

Just what the hell is your problem? Trying to single-handedly prove what jerks fundamentalist Christians are? How hypocritical their pronouncements of Christian love are? Trying to blow away all your pretense all by yourself?

While looking at yourself in the mirror, please note how far apart your ears are. Now, just why is that? Now do something that strikes mortal terror in the heart of every fundamentalist: open a science book. Specifically, open a book on human anatomy. Look up "brain" and you will see that it's your brain that's keeping your ears apart. But despite everything you've been taught and have believed for all these years, your brain is there for much more than just keeping your ears apart: your brain is for thinking!

Right now, you are not thinking. You are lashing out in blind rage. Over what? I have no idea. Do you think that you're trying to teach me a lesson? So what is that lesson? The only lesson I see you presenting here is that fundamentalist Christians are hypocritical loonie nut-jobs. Is that the lesson you really want to present? I rather doubt it. I think that you need to step back and do some thinking. And to return to this discussion with a level head, because until you start thinking you cannot engage in any kind of discussion.

Just out of curiosity, what are you drinking? May I recommend tequila? Cazadores reposado is a good choice; many find the blanco to have too much alcohol taste. Don't even start to worry about limes and salt, because they're not needed (I never could understand all that rigeramarole). Not only does it cure all diseases, it also serves as a good muscle relaxant and you still feel the effects well into the next day.

Just don't be drinking it nor any other alcoholic beverage when you post next time.

And for your information, Jar is much more of the good kind of Christian than you are; ie, the positive image that you bad Christians try in vain to use as a front.

Oh, yeah: in vino, veritas. IOW, when you drink, you blow your cover. You may consider your cover totally blown.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 421 by foreveryoung, posted 04-12-2012 11:33 PM foreveryoung has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 423 by foreveryoung, posted 04-13-2012 12:21 AM dwise1 has taken no action
 Message 424 by foreveryoung, posted 04-13-2012 12:24 AM dwise1 has replied
 Message 430 by Chuck77, posted 04-14-2012 2:14 AM dwise1 has taken no action

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5112
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.7


(4)
Message 425 of 432 (659159)
04-13-2012 12:55 AM
Reply to: Message 424 by foreveryoung
04-13-2012 12:24 AM


Re: The Knowledgeable Creationist
Ah! So if you're not drinking then you are suffering from a mental and/or emotional affliction. Or your fundamentalist brainwashing has bleached out your neo-cortex.

You see, that's the problem that your theology creates. Drawing directly from his own fundamentalist upbringing, Dan Barker describes it as "when your theology becomes your theology." You see, we are Normals, whereas you are one of the aberants. Your brain is broken. You undoubtedly came in still believing that your way was right and that we "atheists" (most of us are not atheists, just not blind fundies) would just collapse when you dazzled us with your superior divine knowledge and arguments.

And then reality bit you in the butt across both cheeks. You were completely unprepared to engage in any kind of discussion. You cannot deal with reality. So then you lash out in anger. You just cannot figure out to deal with the fact that all you have is crap. And with your fundamentalist psychology, that endangers your faith.

Sorry, but this is something that you need to work out yourself. Obviously, when one finds that what one believes is false, then one must deal with that, knowing that the problem at worst lies with the theology and not with any deities that theology deals with. After all, all theology is man-made. But then that is what a Normal would think, whereas you are a fundamentalist Aberant still entrapped by your theology-turned-psychology. You need to work that out for yourself, though you might find some inspiration at http://www.ex-christian.net/ from those who had gone through the same thing themselves.


This message is a reply to:
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