Miracles and their Effect of Faith

Well, that's not quite accurate.Miracles stand out in the Biblical stories because they were the exception to the rule, something unexpected. Jesus himself commented on that and you can read about it in Luke4:21-32.The majority of the story in the Bible is not miracles, it is relationships, God's relationship with man, Man's relationship with God and man's relationship with his fellow man and the world we live in. Not at all, and that too is the real meaning of many of the stories about Jesus, including some of the miracles themselves. There is nothing wrong with looking for evidence, for being skeptical. That is the underlying point in the story of Thomas, or of Peter walking on water.

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

But that is where I think you make the mistake. It is NOT unreasonable to ask for proof. It may be unreasonable though to expect to get it. That is part of the lesson to be learned form the passage I mentioned in Luke.Jesus shows up at the synagogue and starts off by telling the folk gathered, "I know you heard about the show I put on up the road, and you are likely expecting to see one yourself. But guess what folk, there ain't gonna be a show. Instead, listen to what I tell you. Here is the straight skinny on miracles. First, they are discretionary. Remember when Elijah was sent to put on a show? There had been drought for three and a half years, all over including the boonies. Lots of widows all over Israel. But Elijah was only sent to ONE widow, and get this very straight, she wasn't even a Hebrew. And remember Elisha? There were lepers all over Israel then, but only one was miraculously cured and that was Naaman, the Syrian. You heard me right. Syrian, not even a Hebrew. So don't think that just because you are the Chosen People you are something special. Miracles are an act of volition. They are discretionary. Not for sale or show."Too many Christians get all hung up on "miracles" and tend to forget that they are discretionary. They are also usually pretty prosaic. So Jesus fed the crowds that showed up to listen to him, and made the beer run at the party. The miracles, if they happened, were not the message. Like Jesus told the folk gathered in Nazareth, "The message ain't the show, folk. Listen to what I say!"

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Well look at Matthew 4. It is reported to be a conversation between Jesus and Satan (second hand at best) and is not Jesus talking to just folk. Don't worry, your eternal soul is not at stake based on belief or miracles. Listen to the message.It really is simple. Well, if the purpose of miracles were to somehow convince you of the truth, I think Jesus would agree with you. That was part of what is being pointed out in the Luke passage.The message ain't the miracles. Miracles were done to achieve some good; to feed people, heal somebody, allay fears, mitigate suffering.

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Why?You seem to be set on the idea that the message was the miracle, "Hey Rocky, wanna see me pull a Rabbit out of a hat?" or "Here. hold my beer..."Granted, there are some such examples in the Bible but few if any related to Jesus. Most of the show miracles are OT stuff, Moses showing who could conjure up the bigger boa for example.Stop and look at the material you yourself have mentioned in the thread.Jesus puts on a lecture series. The staff come to him and say, "Boss, these folk came a long way to hear you, you talked all day, now it is going to be too late for them to get home. Can we feed them?"The staff don't say, "Hey Boss, here is the storyboard, Crowd shows up, you take a couple fish and some day old bread and make bouillabaisse for 5000. That will make page one of the entertainment section."For the most part, Jesus miracles are after the fact and NOT done to impress. Square what circle?I'm a Christian. I am telling you that is the point of the story.If, like Thomas, you do not believe, you not just have doubts, you just plain think the whole story is a bunch of old and cold codswallop, that's fine.You are not expected to believe without proof at the same level of verification Thomas had.

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Well, I am sorry that none of those folk have come forward myself. Perhaps it is a sign of one of two possibilities.They may have realized that it is a silly argument to try to make and so dropped it.Or they may still believe such nonsense and be afraid to bring it up outside the protection of their clan gatherings.

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Thank you. Wish I had rit it. The different functions for miracles can also bee seen in the OT. A classic example is the Exodus myth. There just about every literary miracle device possible is used to further the plot. You see the "Impress miracle" in the competition between Moshe and Aaron tag team vs the evil conjurers of the Pharaoh as well as in the Plagues where God actually steps in and miraculously changes Pharaoh's mind from convinced to unconvinced just so God can pull of yet another stunt.But you also see the "Miracle as helping" in the manna from heaven, the cloud by day and pillar of fire by night, in the water from rock miracle.Just to cover all bases the Exodus Myth also has the "Miracle to resolve the Clffhanger dilemma that ended the last episode" type as well. A good example is the "Great Pharaoh wetting in the Red Sea" miracle.The Bible really is an anthology, and a different writers had different styles and even different purposes for the bit they wrote. It is much like one of the favorite annual events in the old SF mags. A woe issue would be devoted to one subject and groups of authors would be challenged to write a story around the assigned theme. I was always amazed by the variety that appeared in the final product.

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion