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Author Topic:   Free Will and Biblical Prophecy: Are They Mutually Exclusive?
caldron68
Member (Idle past 3949 days)
Posts: 79
From: USA
Joined: 08-26-2007


Message 51 of 227 (494815)
01-18-2009 10:47 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by ICANT
01-18-2009 9:53 PM


Re: Free Will
ICANT writes:
Do you think God took on flesh and came to walk on earth as one of us?
He came to die for the sins of the world.
No. If God exists and is omniscient, he would not have chosen a creation path that would lead to this requirement.
Cheers,
--Caldron68

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by ICANT, posted 01-18-2009 9:53 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by ICANT, posted 01-19-2009 9:28 AM caldron68 has replied

  
caldron68
Member (Idle past 3949 days)
Posts: 79
From: USA
Joined: 08-26-2007


Message 52 of 227 (494816)
01-18-2009 11:11 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by ICANT
01-18-2009 4:39 PM


Re: Free Will
ICANT writes:
Jesus, God in the flesh knew his fate before the universe and the earth was created.
Really? Did God have a choice in the matter or not?
Cheers,
--Caldron68

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by ICANT, posted 01-18-2009 4:39 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by ICANT, posted 01-19-2009 9:33 AM caldron68 has replied

  
caldron68
Member (Idle past 3949 days)
Posts: 79
From: USA
Joined: 08-26-2007


Message 61 of 227 (494867)
01-19-2009 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by ICANT
01-19-2009 9:28 AM


Re: Free Will
ICANT writes:
You must be speaking for 'God caldron68' because you are not speaking for the God that I was referring too.
You don't give your God very much credit for intelligence do you.
Cheers,
--Caldron68

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by ICANT, posted 01-19-2009 9:28 AM ICANT has not replied

  
caldron68
Member (Idle past 3949 days)
Posts: 79
From: USA
Joined: 08-26-2007


Message 62 of 227 (494868)
01-19-2009 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by ICANT
01-19-2009 9:33 AM


Re: Free Will
ICANT writes:
Sure He did
He could have let us all pay our own sin debt.
But that means that no one would have an opportunity to escape everlasting punishment.
But you're suggesting that he had no choice in the path that he created for man.
If God is omniscient and lives outside of time (views all time as the here and now), then he knew the consequences of his actions before he set the system into play. He knew full well that he would destroy all life by flooding the planet. He knew full well that he would have to sacrifice his Son (himself in flesh) on the cross and he knew full well that he would have to return to Earth a second time in another attempt to clean up the mess that he created.
Your assertion is that he had no other choice in the matter. That things could not have turned out differently. I simply do not agree. If I were omniscient and could see the outcome of my work before I started, I certainly would not start a system that I knew I would have to intentionally destroy through a flood. Especially if I am a kind, loving, compassionate God.
The Bible says this about the flood:
Genesis 6: 5 And Yahweh saw that man's wickedness was great over the face of the earth, and that all day the thoughts in his heart formed nothing but wickedness.
6 And Yahweh regretted having made man on the face of the earth, and his heart grieved.
7 And Yahweh said, "I will wipe man from the face of the earth, man, my own creation and also the animals of the field, and the creatures that crawl on the ground, and the birds of the air; for I regret having made them."
And Yahweh saw that man's wickedness was great over the face of the Earth...... Well, Did God see this coming or not?
It seems that the God of the Bible is NOT the omniscient being that you say he is. I'm sure you'll find some dodge around this, but the Bible clearly states that God saw (after the fact) that man was wicked and that he regretted having made man on the face of the Earth. His solution? Drown them all.
If God is truly omniscient and saw the outcome of his actions before they were set into motion, a truly compassionate, intelligent God would not have taken this path.
Cheers,
--Caldron68

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by ICANT, posted 01-19-2009 9:33 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by ICANT, posted 01-19-2009 3:56 PM caldron68 has replied

  
caldron68
Member (Idle past 3949 days)
Posts: 79
From: USA
Joined: 08-26-2007


Message 72 of 227 (494904)
01-19-2009 8:31 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by ICANT
01-19-2009 3:56 PM


Re: Free Will
ICANT writes:
Sure He had a choice.
He could have programed everyone to do exactly what He wanted them to do.
But there goes free will.
Sure he could have...
I believe that he could have created a path for man that allowed for free will and would not require mass murder through a global flood. That is if he truly is a loving and compassionate God.....
The point of my previous post was that he could have done this if he is truly omniscient. Evidently he is not, and the Genesis 6:5-7 backs this assertion up. Now, would you like to address this point or are you just going to provide another flippant answer to this post too?
Cheers,
--Caldron68

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by ICANT, posted 01-19-2009 3:56 PM ICANT has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by felixmab, posted 01-20-2009 3:39 AM caldron68 has not replied

  
caldron68
Member (Idle past 3949 days)
Posts: 79
From: USA
Joined: 08-26-2007


Message 97 of 227 (495257)
01-21-2009 8:27 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by ICANT
01-21-2009 3:05 PM


Re: Free Will
ICANT writes:
No I am not suggesting that God was incapable of softening their minds (hearts).
I am saying that since man has free will He would not soften their mind to accept Him.
If He did there would be no free will.
God hardened Pharaoh's heart, didn't he.
So much for free will.
Cheers,
--Caldron68

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by ICANT, posted 01-21-2009 3:05 PM ICANT has not replied

  
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