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Author Topic:   Semantics of Cults: What's a cult?
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1369 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 4 of 37 (257090)
11-05-2005 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by RAZD
11-05-2005 10:19 AM


The purpose is to help a Christian distinguish between legitimate mainstream churches and cults.
not sound facetious, but the difference between a religion and a cult is only time. has it been around long enough to be accepted?
i mean, the standard defintion (above) includes this phrase: "with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader." isn't that like muhammed and his followers? christ and his disciples? moses and israel? the only differences is that it happened a long time ago, and more people kept joining up.
but about the semantics thing. i guess that explains why the republicans who don't provide for the poor are the party of jesus (who said things like "give to the poor").

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by RAZD, posted 11-05-2005 10:19 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1369 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 6 of 37 (257098)
11-05-2005 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by RAZD
11-05-2005 3:20 PM


Re: Branches
So then all sects were cults when they started?
yes, i think so. {abe} well, no. the ones that branch of established religions may not need be cults. for instance, lutheranism wasn't a cult, because martin luther wasn't the charismatic leader -- christ was. but starting from scratch, all religions can trace their origin back to a cult. it's kind of an evolutionary process{/abe}
What makes one stop being a cult and start being a sect? Is there a normalization process that diffuses the original cultishness? Or is it just a cult that is accepted?
i would say that cultural acceptance is what diffuses cultishness. and i don't mean just in a redefinition sense. i mean that there is an actual process that changes it. think interpretation -- the talmud or the rulings of the pope. it kind of dilutes the radicalism of the cult, and makes it more acceptable to more people.
it's kind of like political candidates centering themselves before an election.
This message has been edited by arachnophilia, 11-05-2005 03:34 PM

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This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by RAZD, posted 11-05-2005 3:54 PM arachnophilia has replied
 Message 18 by Omnivorous, posted 11-05-2005 7:20 PM arachnophilia has replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1369 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 8 of 37 (257101)
11-05-2005 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by RAZD
11-05-2005 3:54 PM


Re: Branches
So cults evolve into sects, usually after the {death\departure} of the charismatic leader, and in the process of evolving becoming less {radical\extreme} and more mainstream to the population as a whole?
Does the existence of the {cult->sect} transition also act on the society to pull it more towards the {cult->sect} views?
depends. in the case of christianity, yes. although the views it pulled society towards were not its original cultish belief system, rather an already mainstreamed hellenized greek tradition. i suspect that's why the romans picked it up so easily, actually.
Luther wasn't charismatic? He sure had a lot of followers. What is different between him and Bringham Young? Several US colony founders (Mayflower\Plymouth, etc)?
i guess that's a good point. does the leader who radically changes views and leads a departure from the mainstream church, but differs authority, count? maybe he does, and i shouldn't have second-guessed myself.
I agree that all religions seem to evolve to {match\attract} members as society changes, but isn't this also a redefinition of the faith that the OP noted as an element of cults? That would imply that established religions become more cultish as time passes and get further from the original {?pure?} faith.
yes and no. it is a redefinition, yes. but it's TOWARDS the mainstream, not AWAY like in op.

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1369 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 21 of 37 (259237)
11-12-2005 11:28 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Omnivorous
11-05-2005 7:20 PM


Re: Branches
missed this post.
Hmm. The problem here is that, accepting an exemption based on Christ being the charismatic leader, no Christian subset could ever qualify as a cult.
yeah, i think i went back on this claim a while ago. either way, i guess point retracted for now.

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