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Author Topic:   Book of Job -- Little help here
deerbreh
Member (Idle past 2911 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 10 of 61 (233382)
08-15-2005 11:36 AM


I agree that the God of Job appears to be more in line with the multiple capricious Greek and Roman gods than the singular Hebrew God. God seems to be playing a chess game with Satan and Job and his family are the pawns. I don't see much redeeming about the story except that "all things work together for good" turned out better for Job than it did in "Candide". And maybe that there is redemption in suffering.

  
deerbreh
Member (Idle past 2911 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 17 of 61 (233469)
08-15-2005 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Tal
08-15-2005 3:27 PM


Tal writes:
Did my dad die so that my mom and I could know Him? I think so. Is he burning in hell right now because of his decision not to walk down that aisle. Yep.
First of all, I am sorry you lost your dad when you were young. I lost mine too when I was 17 but I don't go looking for reasons because I don't think we can know the mind of God and I don't think God works that way. I also don't see any useful purpose in speculation about who might or might not be "burning in hell". And I am pretty convinced it has little or nothing to do with "walking down the aisle." I tend to think that hell is mostly here on earth anyway in the form of alienation from God and your fellow humans. We are called to "love God with all our mind, heart, soul and strength" and to "love our neighbor as ourselves". That is enough for me and it has nothing to do with "walking down the aisle" and everything to do with how I treat my neighbor (and thus love God, because they are one and the same).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Tal, posted 08-15-2005 3:27 PM Tal has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Tal, posted 08-15-2005 4:03 PM deerbreh has not replied
 Message 21 by Tal, posted 08-15-2005 4:10 PM deerbreh has replied

  
deerbreh
Member (Idle past 2911 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 22 of 61 (233483)
08-15-2005 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Tal
08-15-2005 4:10 PM


You are not saved BECAUSE of your works. You love your neighbor BECAUSE you love God and your neighbor is God's creation. Not only that, "the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, etc." and "By their WORKS ye shall know them." And also, "if ye have done it unto the least of these ye have done it unto me." If you don't love your neighbor than you don't love God. So yes, saved by grace but it either shows or does not show.
Finally, good works can build treasure in heaven and thus lead us to God.
Mark 10:21
Jesus looking at him loved him, and said to him, "One thing you lack. Go, sell whatever you have, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me, taking up the cross."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Tal, posted 08-15-2005 4:10 PM Tal has not replied

  
deerbreh
Member (Idle past 2911 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 51 of 61 (234017)
08-17-2005 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by randman
08-17-2005 12:58 AM


Re: one can always doubt
randman writes:
But trying to dismiss spiritual experiences as mere psychological/chemical hallucinations is just biasness.
Dismissing someone's spiritual experience as a hallucination would probably be bias (no need for the "-ness", "bias" is already a noun)if that is what happened. (Did somebody do this? It appears you hit "general reply" so it is hard to tell.) However, it is hard to deny that there is a psychological component to spirituality. And an intense spiritual experience could certainly feel like a hallucination to the person experiencing it. Was Job fasting during this time? I don't remember. Recall that Peter had his vision of the clean/unclean animals when he was waiting to eat - it is not farfetched to say that low blood sugar could have triggered the vision. A vision could be called a hallucination. The fact that there may be natural explanations doesn't make Peter's vision (or Job's experiences) any less of a spiritual experience - at least not to me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by randman, posted 08-17-2005 12:58 AM randman has not replied

  
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