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Author Topic:   Where does it say in the bible that the Universe is only 6,000 years old?
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2764 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 31 of 114 (108327)
05-15-2004 12:58 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by jar
05-15-2004 12:54 AM


Thanks for the tip.

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doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2764 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 32 of 114 (108334)
05-15-2004 1:23 AM


This is how the great Martin Luther imagined the universe described in Genesis chapter one.
I have colorized a portion of old woodcut print which Luther included as the frontispiece of his first edition German language Bible in 1536 AD.
This view was believed to be an accurate presentation of the Genesis narrative and was presented to combat the opinion of Copernicus, whom Luther called a "fool."
While much of the Bible suggests a flat earth model, Greek influence, especially that of Aristotle, convinced most people that the earth is spherical. Note that the deity is located outside the universe in this model and depicted as the source of primeval light.
db
Edited to delete link to graphic. [The link to this graphic seemed to work for a little while but is not longer functioning]
This message has been edited by doctrbill, 05-15-2004 08:34 AM
This message has been edited by doctrbill, 05-15-2004 09:06 AM

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 33 of 114 (108337)
05-15-2004 1:38 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by doctrbill
05-15-2004 1:23 AM


And looking at that you can see that that model did fit certain observations.
It could be used to make predictions which could later be verified or falsified.
For example, Mountains and land are higher than seas. Birds fly above people but not as high as clouds. In addition, stars are further away since clouds can come between the stars, and the people and birds.
So until some observations came along that could not be explained by that theory, that model, it was okay.
It was only later with the advent of telescopes and additional observations that could not be explained by that model that it had to be abandoned and the Copernican Model accepted.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 34 of 114 (108354)
05-15-2004 3:12 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by JonF
05-12-2004 5:41 PM


JonF responds to me:
quote:
On what basis do you say that it's my myth?
A misinterpretation on my part that you were saying the story was accurate, not that it was inaccurate in a different way.
That is, your religious beliefs had nothing to do with it. Instead, it was a simple logic issue:
If a person making a claim admits that his own claim cannot be trusted, then we are fairly certain that the claim cannot be trusted.
You, on the other hand, were agreeing with me that the story could not be trusted but in a different way from what I was saying as to why it couldn't be trusted.
My mistake. I'll try not to let it happen again.

Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by JonF, posted 05-12-2004 5:41 PM JonF has replied

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Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 35 of 114 (108357)
05-15-2004 3:20 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Rick Rose
05-13-2004 3:32 PM


Rick Rose writes:
quote:
The Bible never says that the earth is six thousand years old.
Not in the sense of it saying, literally, "The earth is six thousand years old." For one thing, much of the Bible was written over two thousand years ago, so it wouldn't claim six thousand years.
Instead, the Bible gives specific chronologies starting from the very first day and moving forward.
quote:
That is God created the universe including our primeval earth. How long ago? The bible doesn’t say.
It most certainly does:
Genesis 1:10: And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
[...]
Genesis 1:13: And the evening and the morning were the third day.
Not only does the Bible state when the earth was created, the earth doesn't even get created first.
But even if we go with your confusion of the earth for the universe, the Bible still says when it all started:
Genesis 1:5: And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
That "day" means a day. Not a millennium. Not some vague, undefined amount of time. A literal, 24-hour day. If it meant something else, it would have said something else.
Therefore, all you need to do is count up the specific dates mentioned in the Bible. It gives a geneology from Adam (created on the sixth day (Gen 1:31) through to Abraham. It then goes on to say that Abraham was 75 when a covenant was established, that 430 years passed from that covenant to the Exodus, and that 480 years passed from the Exodus to the founding of Solomon's Temple.
With a date of about 960 BCE for the founding of Solomon's Temple, we simply need to add the previous years to that date and we wind up with a total timespan from the creation of the universe to now of about 5800 years.

Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Rick Rose, posted 05-13-2004 3:32 PM Rick Rose has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Rick Rose, posted 05-15-2004 11:21 PM Rrhain has replied
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Rick Rose
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 114 (108500)
05-15-2004 11:21 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Rrhain
05-15-2004 3:20 AM


I don't know how to reply. It's not that I don't know what I believe. I enjoy discussing science and the bible. I must admit that I'm not a scientist. In fact some of the science threads are way over my head, but I still enjoy reading them. I learned on one thread that modern man has no neanderthal dna. Out of curiosity, I want to go back to that thread and ask if modern man is known to have dna from from any of the known older species.
Anyway, I would like to get back to our discussion. You tell me what point (only one at a time) to pick up on. I'll look at your point and let you know whether or not I agree. What I have stated so far is only to the best of my understanding. My desire in life is to love God, as I can understand him, with my whole heart.
Today I was not able to answer because for some reason, evc would not allow me to make any more coments on thier site. Maybe it was a technical glitch. Not sure.
Can you clarify one point. Are you a bible believer? I ask because some seem to argue both sides, I guess they enjoy that. I don't care for that. So if I am discussing the bible with someone who presents themselves as a believer, I just like to verify that is the case.
About bible chronology. I come up with 6029 years from the creation of Adam. But as you know I don't equate the creation of man with that of the universe. I am what they call an Old Earth Creationist (OEC)in the respect that I believe the universe is really old. But I differ from the OECists in that many of them believe that God created life and let life evolve. I'm not tucked neatly into any of the catagories.
rickrose

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Rrhain, posted 05-15-2004 3:20 AM Rrhain has replied

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Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 37 of 114 (108702)
05-16-2004 8:49 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Rick Rose
05-15-2004 11:21 PM


Rick Rose responds to me:
quote:
Can you clarify one point. Are you a bible believer?
Why does it matter? Do my statements become more or less true if I believe?

Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

This message is a reply to:
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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5591 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 38 of 114 (108725)
05-16-2004 11:57 PM


Deleted
This message has been edited by whatever, 05-16-2004 11:18 PM

  
johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5591 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 39 of 114 (108726)
05-17-2004 12:00 AM


The meek shall inherit the earth (A New Heaven and a New Earth)
I don't see anything to suggest the earth/universe was created only 6,000 years ago. It however is interesting that the bible suggest the earth and the heavens had a beginning, in this we at least agree, that the universe, & the earth had a beginning (kjv genesis 1:1), as with all the stars in the heavens, though they all became visible when God placed the earth/sun in a proper orbital planes so they would be placed in the firmament of the sky (kjv genesis 1:16), and it was good, (kjv genesis 1:17)
P.S. What's awesome is that God is going to make our earth and the heavens new, (this time not a world flood but by fire) its kinda interesting cause, the Word mentions that the earth's elements will be toasted and there will be no more sea (kjv revelation 21:1) heaven and earth will passed away (kjv Mark 13:31), a new heaven and a new
earth, kjv 2 peter 3:13) cause the earth is going to be judged with fire (kjv 2 peter 3:7) judgment day, its kinda awesome, though that cause of God's covenant with Noah, that seedtime and harvest will continue while the earth remaineth, etc... (kjv genesis 8:22)
It is kinda interesting that Peter says in kjv 2 peter 3:7-8 but the heavens and the earth, which are now, are reserved unto fire against the day of judgement, etc... He talks how people are willingly are ignorant of (kjv 2 peter 3:5-6), that by the Word of God the heavens of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the waters where the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
Its kinda interesting that Peter mentions by the Word of God, and that Jesus said heaven and earth will pass away, but his words would never pass away, and Peter tells us to look for a new heaven and a new earth (kjv 2 peter 3:13), its all about being an overcomer (kjv revelation 21:7) and the Word says: And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. (kjv revelations 21:5) It is quite interesting that it says the meek shall inherit the earth (kjv Matthew 5:5) and that Jesus said: come unto me all that are heavy laden for I'm meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light (kjv matthew 11:28-30.
This message has been edited by whatever, 05-16-2004 11:10 PM

  
cromwell
Inactive Member


Message 40 of 114 (108762)
05-17-2004 6:43 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by fnord
05-13-2004 4:23 PM


Seen the light
Ffnord says....
>>But gen.1:16 clearly states that the stars were created on the fourth day, and therefore not prior to the six days of creation
But surely you must know that there are some very good arguments to translate yom with "literal day". For instance, the word yom can mean an unspecified period of time, but usually means a 24 hour period. In combination with a number, such as "fourth day", it always means a literal day. Also, in Hebrew there is another word for "period of unspecified length" or "age" (but I've forgotten what that was), that would have been used had the periods of creation not been literal days. <<
Yohm can mean an unspecified period of time and is used in Genesis as it is appropriate.Its true meaning can only be shown using the context of the surrounding scriptures and by utilising the whole theme and purpose of Jehovah God in the bible.Likewise the true meaning of 'Elohim' amongst other terms have to be defined by using the context of the surrounding scriptures so as to get a picture of what is going on.
You say that you can't remember the other Hebrew term for a period of unspecified time.This term is "Oh.lam" This is by no means appropriate to use in line with "days".Oh.lam is associated with the sense of indefinite or uncertain time of which the beginning or end is uncertain.Yohm however encompasses a time with a beginning and end,but still unspecified time.
Comparing Oh.lam and Yohm can show the subtle differerences between Hebrew terms and illustrates why certain terms were appropriately used in the translation.To the Israelites Genesis would have been more clear cut.For us it needs faith that the translation was correct,and if not satisfied you need to look at the original meanings of the key words.
Ohlam is used at Genesis 6:4 The latter part reads "The mighty ones >>of old.<<
Other hebrew terms denoting unlimited time are "Adh"..everlasting or forever and Netsach...everlastingness or perpetual.All three words appear at Psalm 9:5,6 ....
5 You have rebuked nations, you have destroyed the wicked one.
Their name you have wiped out to time indefinite (le'ohlam), even forever.(wa'adh)
6 O you enemy, your desolations have come to their perpetual finish.(la'netsach)
Quote..."And besides, I still think genesis 1:16 describes the creation, and not the uncovering, of sun, moon, and stars, especially when you read 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth."
The correct translation is "expanse".I'll reason on that in the next post.For now...
At Genesis 1:16 the Hebrew verb bara, meaning create, is not used. Instead, the Hebrew verb `asah, meaning make, is employed. Since the sun, moon, and stars are included in the heavens mentioned in Genesis 1:1, they were created long before Day Four. On the fourth day God proceeded to make these celestial bodies occupy a new relationship toward earth’s surface and the expanse above it. When it is said, God put them in the expanse of the heavens to shine upon the earth, this would indicate that they now became discernible from the surface of the earth, as though they were in the expanse. Also, the luminaries were to serve as signs and for seasons and for days and years, thus later providing guidance for man in various ways.Ge 1:14
Previously, on the first day, the expression Let light come to be was used. The Hebrew word there used for light is ohr, meaning light in a general sense. But on the fourth day, the Hebrew word changes to maohr, which refers to a luminary or source of light. (Ge 1:14) So, on the first day diffused light evidently penetrated the swaddling bands, but the sources of that light could not have been seen by an earthly observer. Now, on the fourth day, things evidently changed.The perspective of the observer is the important point to note.
You're probably still not satisfied! But if your spiritual hunger was likened to food,is it the taste that you never get satisfied,or is it the sense of never having your hunger satisfied?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by fnord, posted 05-13-2004 4:23 PM fnord has replied

Replies to this message:
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cromwell
Inactive Member


Message 41 of 114 (108763)
05-17-2004 6:56 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Sylas
05-14-2004 10:47 PM


Expanding the issue
Sylas says...
>>Where are the stars placed? In the firmament. So it is trivially erroneous to infer that the firmament excludes outer space.
The proper conclusion is that the writers of Genesis did not make a strong distinction between the atmosphere and outer space. You've given no reason whatsoever for excluding space from the firmament, merely because it also includes things within the atmosphere.<<
The correct translation is Expanse...Hebrew: "Ra.qi.a".
The expanse between the two waters is clearly defined in Genesis 1:6.The Heavens above the expanse and the heavens below the expanse.The stars,earth and sun and their light were made before in the heavens and then were made to gradually appear as if in the expanse and heavens of the sky above our head.Appearing through the gradually clearing thick cloudy cover over the periods of time (Days..Yohm.See above post).It comes down to the perspective of the observer.
As mentioned in the above post.At Genesis 1:16 the Hebrew verb bara, meaning create, is not used. Instead, the Hebrew verb `asah, meaning make, is employed. Since the sun, moon, and stars are included in the heavens mentioned in Genesis 1:1, they were created long before Day Four. On the fourth day God proceeded to make these celestial bodies occupy a new relationship toward earth’s surface and the expanse above it. When it is said, God put them in the expanse of the heavens to shine upon the earth, this would indicate that they now became discernible from the surface of the earth, as though they were in the expanse. Also, the luminaries were to serve as signs and for seasons and for days and years, thus later providing guidance for man in various ways.Ge 1:14.
Their seems to be a confusion here on the idea of firmament being used by the hebrews as opposed to the true interpretation of expanse.The Greek Septuagint used the word stereoma (meaning a firm and solid structure) to translate the Hebrew raqia`, and the Latin Vulgate used the Latin term firmamentum, which also conveys the idea of something solid and firm. The King James Version, the Revised Standard Version, and many others follow suit in translating raqia` by the word firmament. However, in its marginal reading the King James Version gives the alternate reading expansion, and the American Standard Version gives expanse in its footnote. Other translations support such renderingexpanse (Ro; Fn; Yg; An; NW); expansin (VM [Spanish]); tendue [extent or expanse] (Segond; Ostervald [French]).
Some endeavor to show that the ancient Hebrew concept of the universe included the idea of a solid vault arched over the earth, with sluice holes through which rain could enter and with the stars fixed within this solid vault, diagrams of such concept appearing in Bible dictionaries and some Bible translations. Commenting on this attitude, The International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia states: But this assumption is in reality based more upon the ideas prevalent in Europe during the Dark Ages than upon any actual statements in the Old [estament]Edited by J. Orr, 1960, Vol. I, p. 314.
While it is true that the root word (raqa`) from which raqia` is drawn is regularly used in the sense of beating out something solid, whether by hand, by foot, or by any instrument (compare Ex 39:3; Eze 6:11), in some cases it is not sound reasoning to rule out a figurative use of the word. Thus at Job 37:18 Elihu asks concerning God: With him can you beat out [tarqia`] the skies hard like a molten mirror? That the literal beating out of some solid celestial vault is not meant can be seen from the fact that the word skies here comes from a word (shachaq) also rendered film of dust or clouds (Isa 40:15; Ps 18:11), and in view of the nebulous quality of that which is ‘beaten out,’ it is clear that the Bible writer is only figuratively comparing the skies to a metal mirror whose burnished face gives off a bright reflection.Compare Da 12:3.
So, too, with the expanse produced on the second creative day, no solid substance is described as being beaten out but, rather, the creation of an open space, or division, between the waters covering the earth and other waters above the earth. It thus describes the formation of the atmospheric expanse surrounding the earth and indicates that at one time there was no clear division or open space but that the entire globe was previously enveloped in water vapor.
The Israelites are sometimes muddled in with the pagan poyltheistic peoples.Gods "chosen" people were so far away in their understanding of God and creation from the other nations beliefs and their worship of false gods for seasons,stella and natural objects e.t.c. Also with their absurd and fanciful views on how their gods created the earth and man.These heathen people would consistantly practice torture of captives and sacrifice children to man made gods.
These Hebrew people were purely monotheistic having the one belief in the God Jehovah.This is clearly born out in the scriptures.Mans history from Adam through to the set up of the kings of Israel.Jehovah God protected the lineage leading to Jesus,and Jehovah abhorred the digusting practices of the debased people outside of his monotheistic truth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Sylas, posted 05-14-2004 10:47 PM Sylas has replied

Replies to this message:
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cromwell
Inactive Member


Message 42 of 114 (108765)
05-17-2004 7:09 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by Rrhain
05-15-2004 3:20 AM


A day in the life of Jehovah
Rrain says....
That the days of the Genesis creation are implying 24 hour days.
>>Genesis 1:10: And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
Genesis 1:13: And the evening and the morning were the third day.
Not only does the Bible state when the earth was created, the earth doesn't even get created first.
But even if we go with your confusion of the earth for the universe, the Bible still says when it all started:
Genesis 1:5: And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
That "day" means a day. Not a millennium. Not some vague, undefined amount of time. A literal, 24-hour day. If it meant something else, it would have said something else.<<
Yohm the translation for "days" at Genesis means a period of time,but Genesis does seem to point to 24 hour days as rightfully pointed out above.This is because it says "The evening and the morning" at the end of each creative "day".(Ge 1:5, 8, 13, 19, 23, 31) God called the whole creative period of 6 "days" a day.Since the length of each creative day seems to exceed 24 hours,this expression does not apply to literal night and day but is figurative. During the evening period,things would be indistinct; but in the morning they would become clearly discernible. During the evening, or beginning, of each creative period, or day, God’s purpose for that day, though fully known to him, would be indistinct to any angelic observers. However, when the morning arrived there would be full light as to what God had purposed for that day, it having been accomplished by that time.
The bible is full of illustrative,literal and figurative scriptures.To illustrate the above as being figurative, we can take another example.....
Jesus was asked to give proof of being the son of God,by doubters. John 2:18-22.....
18 Therefore, in answer, the Jews said to him: What sign have you to show us, since you are doing these things? 19 In answer Jesus said to them: Break down this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20 Therefore the Jews said: This temple was built in forty-six years, and will you raise it up in three days? 21 But he was talking about the temple of his body. 22 When, though, he was raised up from the dead, his disciples called to mind that he used to say this; and they believed the Scripture and the saying that Jesus said.
Here Jesus says that he could build the temple again within three days.Many continued to believe that he was going to perform a physical miracle and mocked him.He didn't reveal the true meaning even before or during his execution.....
At Matthew 38 we read.. Then two robbers were impaled with him, one on his right and one on his left. 39 So the passersby began speaking abusively of him, wagging their heads 40 and saying: O you would-be thrower-down of the temple and builder of it in three days, save yourself! If you are a son of God, come down off the torture stake.But the disciples knew what he meant.
The Genesis "day" is not to be taken literally,likewise Jesus words "I will raise up this temple in three days" at John 2:18-20.is not literal.You therefore sometimes have to look at the context of the scriptures surrounding the supposed literal phrase and tie it in with other scriptures to get the whole picture.e.g.There are other scriptures to show that Jesus meant that,his body was the temple.
This is our general belief within our religion,but "all things are possible with God" So we are open to other interpretations as new developments and understandings come to light.
I can show you the biblical chronology that gives 6029 years of mans existence if you wish.This is based on a "pivotol" date.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Rrhain, posted 05-15-2004 3:20 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by Rrhain, posted 05-20-2004 2:41 AM cromwell has replied

  
Sylas
Member (Idle past 5260 days)
Posts: 766
From: Newcastle, Australia
Joined: 11-17-2002


Message 43 of 114 (108766)
05-17-2004 7:32 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by cromwell
05-17-2004 6:56 AM


The events of the fourth day in Genesis.
(You can quote people by writing something like [QS=name]Quoted text.[/QS]. Use the raw text button to see how people write their posts.)
Cromwell writes:
The correct translation is Expanse...Hebrew: "Ra.qi.a".
The expanse between the two waters is clearly defined in Genesis 1:6.The Heavens above the expanse and the heavens below the expanse. The stars, earth and sun and their light were made before in the heavens and then were made to gradually appear as if in the expanse and heavens of the sky above our head. Appearing through the gradually clearing thick cloudy cover over the periods of time (Days..Yohm.See above post). It comes down to the perspective of the observer.
Genesis is not a science text book; and by trying to fit it with what is known by science, you end up with a distortion of both.
Genesis is plain. The Sun, Moon and stars were made on the fourth day. It was not that they became visible on the fourth day, or that their light filtered through clouds on the fourth day. They were made on the fourth day.
Anything else is denial of the biblical text. The attempt to make the creation of the Sun into a clearing of clouds is both scientifically ridiculous and also theologically sterile. The only point is to try and force fit with a modern cosmology; but Genesis is not a science text book, and it was not written with modern cosmology as the context.
Cheers -- Sylas

This message is a reply to:
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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5591 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 44 of 114 (108784)
05-17-2004 9:46 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by Sylas
05-17-2004 7:32 AM


Re: The events of the fourth day in Genesis.
I think we all agree the sun/stars were shining before day 4, though they were not likely visible because of the mist that covered the earth kjv genesis 2:6 before man was yet upon the earth. So it would appear that the sun went nucleur on God's Creation day 1 when he said let their be light, and we all know that plants need sunlight, but didn't need to see, but the animals would need for the atmosphere to be clear, to see, so God moved the heavens and the earth literally to position their spacial relationships in respect to the zodiac, seasons, years, months, and 24 hour days on Creation day 4. Too me this means that Day 4 took a thousand years, etc... When man was created we then have approximately 6,000 years expired since Adams birth, and Adam died less than a thousand years so he died within Gods Day of rest within the creation week day 7. With all this it makes the earth a little older than 12,000 years, but less than 13,000 years since God said let there be light to melt the frozen waters, and to the creation of the atmosphere, the raising up of the earth techtonics so it was lifted out of the waters and in the waters(the waters above and below the firmament), and we all know how God destroyed the earth in the biblical deluge, and how it will again be made new in the jugdment of fire where the elements will be melted with fervent heat, and all things will be made new. Day 4 was important so you could measure time, when God stablished the orbits or the moon, the earth, and thus when Adam was born we have a record of approximaely 6,000 years from his birth, though he died within one of Gods days (kjv genesis 2:17) (kjv genesis 5:5), cause he died less than a thousand years old, and one day to God is as a thousand of our years. With confirmations that one day to God is as a thousand years, it makes the earth since the sun started (kjv genesis 1:3) shining only 12,000 - 13,000 years not 6,000 years ago, and that the earth was void without form before God molded the earth, causing the frozen waters above the face of the waters to melt, when he caused the sun to become a light on Creation day 1, etc...Time became measureable on creation day 4(because God spent a thousand of our years positioning the sun, moon, and the stars in a repetitional orbital planes to give us days, months, seasons, and the zodiac for our knowing the seasons as the earth revolved around the sun), though man wasn't created until God's creation day 6, starting 2,000 years after the beginning of creation day 4. With the clearing of the mist cause of the creation of creatures that needed to see, so the mist was lifted kjv genesis 2:6), and the lights became visible, in the sky on day 4 and it was good, and still is good, etc...
kjv Gen 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
kjv Gen 1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
kjv Gen 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
kjv Gen 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
kjv Gen 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Sylas, posted 05-17-2004 7:32 AM Sylas has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Sylas, posted 05-17-2004 9:59 AM johnfolton has not replied

  
Sylas
Member (Idle past 5260 days)
Posts: 766
From: Newcastle, Australia
Joined: 11-17-2002


Message 45 of 114 (108785)
05-17-2004 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by johnfolton
05-17-2004 9:46 AM


Re: The events of the fourth day in Genesis.
whatever writes:
I think we all agree the sun/stars were shining before day 4, though they were not likely visible because of the mist that covered the earth kjv genesis 2:6 before man was yet upon the earth.
You think wrong.
I emphatically do not agree to any such thing. The account in Genesis is perfectly explicit that the sun and stars were created on the fourth day, and this is essential to the whole structure of the account.
The only basis for denying the plain biblical text on this matter is to force fit the Genesis account into a match with modern cosmology.
This match distorts the bible, and fails to be scientifically meaningful. The notion that plants were created before the Sun became visible is scientific nonsense. But it makes good sense in the structure of Genesis. Genesis is not a scientific text book. The primary error is in even bothering to make a comparison with modern cosmology at all. That is the wrong context, and will inevitably obscure the intented lessons of the biblical writer.
Cheers -- Sylas

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by johnfolton, posted 05-17-2004 9:46 AM johnfolton has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by PaulK, posted 05-17-2004 10:23 AM Sylas has not replied
 Message 51 by Rick Rose, posted 05-17-2004 3:21 PM Sylas has replied

  
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