Atheists have less reason to continue living?

This I've gotta see!
How large a number, Rusty?
Name a reason why/how you would love 42 kids enough to have she-bears rip them limb from limb.

Knight, are you referring to me?

Coragyps, this is off-topic, so I'm not gonna continue this line of discussion apart from this one simple reply.......but the easiest explaination, which requires practically no imagination, is that the children died and went to heaven.

So if sometime down the road Jesus was shown to have never existed, THEN you'd go around drugging and raping women?It's rather interesting that the only reason some Christians have for their morality is because Christ/God has COMMANDED them... AND fear of reprisal from their god.Funny... nothing commands me to behave lovingly towards others and yet I do...What's my reason? Because I am inherently good and I was raised by people who taught me the value of life and how to respect it. It's hardly a secret.

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Geez, I'm certainly getting an emotional response out of you people........ya know, for a bunch of people who spend a lot of their time picking apart other peoples' beliefs, you sure do get touchy when the tables are turned.

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Perhaps you are getting emotional responses because you are telling people that their view of the world is dishonest, immoral, without meaning, and illogical. That tends to raise a few hackles, in case you haven't noticed.According to you, atheists can not feel love, do everything in a selfish manner, and feel that life is not important. Of course, no atheist feels this way. Love can be illogical and still fit into an atheist worldview. Atheists do altruistic things without expecting a reward besides feeling better about helping his fellow man. An atheist puts great importance on his or her life, being that it is the only one they get.Let's contrast this with what you are claiming. You seem to claim that without biblical teachings and a relationship with God man is unable to do good. Man is also unable to act unselfishly, or have meaning in their life. I can tell you from experience that nothing you claim is true. Morality exists outside of the Bible and religion, happiness exists outside of church, and meaning can be found without appealing to the supernatural.What your posts boil down to is this: "I am superior and you poor atheists are nothing more than animals." A condescending attitude won't get you far around here.

Ridiculous........if they were the same thing, there weren't be two different terms for them with two differing definitions.

By definition, agnosticism is no more atheism than it is theism......

It's simple, really......the logical end of atheism is complete lack of moral absolutes and non-hedonistic meaning for existance.

If that isn't morality what is your definition of it?From the Cambridge online dictionary:

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a personal or social set of standards for good or bad behaviour and character, or the quality of being right, honest or acceptable:

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It seems to me that my behaviour is governed by a personal set of standards for behaviour that I have derived by the means I noted.Your complicated structure of individuals working together is based on a "set of standards". How is this not morality?It is time for you to offer up your definition of morality, Please.Now you were going to show the logic. So far all you've done is try to define away the issue. Please show the logical steps.This message has been edited by NosyNed, 11-01-2004 04:41 PM

Oooook, looks like Danny boy's not interested in serious debate anymore.......that's fine. I'll simply ignore you for the remainder of the time I spend on this topic.

This is some of what I posted in the other thread. The message of "hope" that Christians deliver concerns the afterlife and the person receiving the message has no way to check the veracity of the message.Atheists don't need to preach hope, but they can provide hope. What they can provide would be done in this world where they are held accountable. People know what they are getting, good or bad.Whose sacrifice is more meaningful? The man who dies to save another knowing he has another life to live or the one who knows his life is over? A 13yr old boy from a small Christian Church. Family is very devout and involved in the church. Mother is a nurse. His father died after battling cancer for over 5yrs. This young boy now resides in the cemetery next to my house. He took his own life after his father's death, because he wanted to join his father in heaven with Jesus.A devout Christian woman in her mid 40's and perfect health, who has two wonderful young boys and husband, prays at the end of each Bible study that she wants to be taken away now to the perfect life with Jesus. Fortunately she hasn't taken her own life yet.Over 20 yrs ago a Marine Sgt., who is also a devout Christian, kills his wife and children and then kills himself because God told him to.5yrs ago a 60yr old woman starved herself to death because she had enough of her life in a wheel chair. She didn't want to be a burden on her family and wanted to join Jesus in heaven.

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but what reason would a christian have to continue living that only a christian could have? If a christian wants to continue living due to love of life (their family, friends, experiences etc), then as an atheist all of those reasons are accessible to me.

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I haven't noticed that Christians have anything different to live for than you do.

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A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

Uh this is an assertion but you have yet to show the logical steps.You have asserted that without a God there can be no morality (set of standards; controls on behavior) unless there is fear of reprisal.Since a number of people have shown you that there are ways for there to be controls on behaviour without such fear of reprisal. A number of us have, frequently even, done things and not done things simply for the internal reward we give ourselves without any thought of reward or punishment. Since that is true it is not required that a lack of belief in God results in no such controls without external threat.So we have the real world circumstance that some people who don't believe in a God manage to behave in ways that some of us might agree is "better" than others who do believe in God. We also have seen no logical steps from you.At this time your conjecture doesn't seem to be on very firm ground.

And the overall effect will be different from your previous posts how, exactly?

There is, from both sides, a bit too much extraneous comment on others. Rusty you have been as, or more, guilty of it than anyone.There are guidelines governing your behaviour on this forum. In the long term you are required to adhere to them.You're new and haven't had a chance to learn.Besides being a bit more respectful of the others here there is a major problem you seem to be suffering from: an overuse of assertions and a noticable lack of back up.Back up might be statments of the kind:
In the atheist world view there is no morality BECAUSE ....
Or
These published studies show that more immoral acts are committed by atheists than by age and social level matched individuals who are believers.Untill you can deliver such back up you might want to slow down on the assertions.It is also noted that there is a tendancy for the less well prepared to debate to be much more thin skinned and sensitive when the others get a bit less gentle. Danny boy, in a somewhat less than gentle way, simple asked you to support your statments.This message has been edited by AdminNosy, 11-01-2004 04:56 PM

If I could take any woman I wanted, and be certain of no reprisals, yes, I would.Don't lie to yourself.......because you would too. It's nature. No, no, you misunderstand........I don't keep Christ's commandments for fear of reprisal, I keep Christ's commandments because I love Christ. Because Christ first loved me, and died for me. From an atheistic logical point of view, this is nothing but romantic drivel. You behave lovingly toward others so that they'll behave lovingly toward you. You are NOT inherantly good, because there's no such thing as absolute good, and survival of the fittest gaurantees that even if there WERE absolute good, no living creature would fit the requirements for being good........and life has no value. It's simply animate chemicals.