In an off topic rant in the Discussion of Moderation thread, Iano made this comment:
Jar is not a Christian. Never has been (but hopefully will be). From Rays perspective (and mine) Jar is a 5th Columnist - and could expect to be (as per type) particularly reviled by those who recognize him for what he is.
There is no rant. If there was then you would not have replied. In reality, Iano has triggered your alarm because what he or she says is perceived to be true.
5th columnism is simply a synonym or variation of "double agent." The concept of double agent has a person feigning loyalty to one entity while seeking its destruction from within. Jar fits the bill perfectly. He argues against the veracity of the Bible tooth and nail. Logically real Christians do the exact opposite.
But since Jar THINKS he is a real Christian we need only to explain his belief about himself: since Judas, according to Jesus (John 6) was a son of the devil from the beginning, he typifies persons who outwardly claim to walk with Christ but are, in fact, like Jesus said, deceived and walking with Satan.
Judas corresponds to Jar and yourself. There is no other explanation as to how persons could think of them self as Christians, but deny His Father created mankind from the clay-like ground, and agree with Richard Dawkins instead. Objective persons know real Christians and real Atheists do not agree on origins of mankind. We believe Richard Dawkins is a real Atheist.
Like Jar, you Phat THINK that God has given you exemption to side with the enemy and their anti-Bible Atheist origin myth. According to the Bible there are no exemptions; you are deceived.
Re: Phat & Jar: how we explain their "Christianity"
[I recognize the fact that while the post I am responding to was a reply to one of my messages, you are apparently speaking directly to Phat.]
I would not go so far as Ray and imply that Jar is beyond redemption however - he is lost but he can be found (I sincerely hope)
I never said any person (much less Jar) was beyond redemption. What I did say was to explain how Jar could think of himself as a Christian while arguing against the Bible like any given Atheist might do.
Surely the contradiction is obvious: Jar: "the Bible is mythical and not true in its history or science; but I am still a Christian."
Why would anybody be a Christian if the source is completely false?
This question is NOT answerable.
This is why in my original post in this topic: Message 66 I said that we only need to explain Jar's belief about himself (which I did).
As for Phat: he is certainly more "Christian" than Jar. I am not blind to his religious indications, but their are heathen priests in Japan and Haiti that can talk in tongues better than any Pentecostal and they tell you for certain that their source is Satan. We know Charles Darwin feigned Deism after 1836, but he was, in fact, an Atheist. Society is loaded with persons who wear crosses and say Protestant things. The point is that the Bible provides us with ways to determine who is walking with God and who is walking with Satan.
The Bible says if the secular world approves of you or the religious status quo then you are walking with Satan. In the Bible, those who walk with God are persecuted by the world and the religious establishment. Since the Atheist-evolutionists of EvC approve of Phat, in this context this evidence tells us that Phat is not walking with God. It is axiomatic: whoever the world approves of is not walking with God - no exceptions. Phat is a Moderator and a evolutionist, he cares more about being liked by the status quo here than the word of God, which he pays lip service to. No matter how you slice it there is something wrong with the Christianity of a person who agrees with Richard Dawkins concerning the origin of mankind. Dawkins believes in human evolution because it flatly contradicts the Bible. The claim is founded on anti-God suppositions that predetermine and guarantee the conclusions, yet Phat, in "love with his Savior," thinks God understands, and has given him an exemption. What makes any person think that God would approve of any person who accepts the presuppositions of Materialism or Naturalism?
He does not. God would never contradict His word and say it is okay to exclude Him.
This is why I said Jar and Phat, like all TEists, are proof positive for the existence and power of Satan to deceive.
Crazy Christians cannot even agree on what a Christian is, which proves what a pile of junk it is.
I have defined Christian the way the Bible defines it. First, we remove the word "Christian" and replace it with "persons who are in God's will," which is synonymous. The Bible is crystal clear in this respect: persons in God's will are those that are persecuted and rejected by the secular AND religious establisment. This is a full-proof criteria: every person in God's will IN the Bible is persecuted by secular and religious establishments; therefore, if you are a Christian, and you are accepted by these entities and loved and not persecuted and rejected then your Christianity is counterfeit.
Both Jar and Phat, by these criteria, are not real Christians. Both are accepted by the Atheist-evolutionist status quo here at EvC.
While Buzsaw is a Moderator, he is the object of angry invective by all Mods and Admins and Directors. Faith is banned. Of course I am the devil incarnate.
Life is short enough without worrying about what's going to happen when you die.
Truth derived from the Bible says persons who have concern about going to hell are probably not, and those who have no concern whatsover probably are.
Brian: the hand of Christ via the gospel (= way of faith apart from the works of the code of conduct known as the law) is available to you. Seize Christ by faith and wait on Him in that state, is my advice.