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Author Topic:   What Is A Christian (Remix)
Thugpreacha
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From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
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Message 1 of 133 (425849)
10-04-2007 8:50 AM


In an off topic rant in the Discussion of Moderation thread, Iano made this comment:
quote:
Jar is not a Christian. Never has been (but hopefully will be). From Rays perspective (and mine) Jar is a 5th Columnist - and could expect to be (as per type) particularly reviled by those who recognize him for what he is.

I will never be so brash as to judge whom God accepts versus whom God does not accept. Jar is an Episcopalian . I would pay close attention in this link to the following three statements:

  • Uniformity of beliefs and disciplines is stifling. Our differences disclose the variety of gifts the Spirit gives. We will have different perceptions about what friendship with God requires of us. So we don't tell each other what to do or make judgments about each other. We do try to be supportive of each other. We try to be "a church in which there are no outcasts" as our former Presiding Bishop puts it. We struggle hard to overcome those fears which keep us from being fully inclusive. God is not through with us yet. So we strive to be a community in which we have “in all things essential, unity; in all things non-essential, diversity; in all things, charity.”

  • The Scriptures speak God's truth with special power and are God's Word. Simplistic and literalistic interpretations may miss the point of what God says to us.

  • Reason is a gift. We should accept it even in religious matters. We affirm the importance of an ongoing conversation between the voices of faith and those of science, art, culture, economics and public life.

    In this topic, I wish to discuss the attributes of what makes a Christian a Christian.

    I also want everyone to be familiar with the following concepts:

    Inclusivism

    Exclusivism

    Common Grace

    Prevenient Grace

    Faith & Belief, please.

    Edited by Phat, : added link

    Edited by Phat, : added link again

    Edited by Phat, :


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    Thugpreacha
    Member
    Posts: 13043
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.2


    Message 41 of 133 (425946)
    10-04-2007 4:02 PM
    Reply to: Message 40 by New Cat's Eye
    10-04-2007 3:59 PM


    Just joining...man this thread moves quick!
    CatholicScientist writes:

    There's got to be some minimum requirements for being a Christian that Christians, in general, can agree on. For one, I'd say that believing in Jesus' divinity is one of those minimum requirements.

    Although some believe that while on earth, Jesus was only human.
    If God raised Him from the dead, the onus is still Gods power and not Jesus power.

    I would say that believing that He is alive today with God is more to the point. But thats just my personal belief.

    jar writes:

    "The message of Jesus would be valid even if Jesus had only been myth and tales told around the campfire."

    Its a different paradigm, though. The exclusivists believe that although Jesus died for everyone, individuals need to accept God (or Jesus) for who He is and not for who they think He is.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 40 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-04-2007 3:59 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

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    Thugpreacha
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    Posts: 13043
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
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    Message 44 of 133 (425949)
    10-04-2007 4:11 PM
    Reply to: Message 38 by New Cat's Eye
    10-04-2007 3:52 PM


    Bylaws
    ...if you said that you were a Christian but you don't believe and follow Jesus. Then I would say Nuh-uh. Or if you said that you don't think that Jesus was God's son. Or if you thought that Jesus never existed.
    I agree with you. Anyone may be able to make it into heaven by doing the good philosophies of the tales told round the campfire, but to be a Christian, you need to relate to Christ IMHO.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 38 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-04-2007 3:52 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

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    Thugpreacha
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    Posts: 13043
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.2


    Message 96 of 133 (426200)
    10-05-2007 4:47 PM
    Reply to: Message 93 by ringo
    10-05-2007 3:21 PM


    Remix
    This topic sure moves fast!

  • Some people believe that God died for everyone, and that salvation is unearned and not chosen. Others believe that Baptism is a central prerequisite. Still others believe that although God chose all of us, we must respond to His call.

    Ringo writes:

    What I've been saying is that "relating to Christ" means doing like Christ, not saying, "I relate to Christ."

    so does "doing like Christ" mean praying a large portion of the day?

    I agree that being Christlike could be done by a Hindu, a Buddhist, or an Atheist.

  • I don't agree that it is irrelevant whether or not Christ even actually lived. The whole idea of God becoming man has enormous implications. To throw that belief away is to reduce God to whatever
    philosophical concept one chooses to ascribe to Him.

    IMB, God is not a product of human definition and wisdom. God exists and permeates our daily lives whether or not we choose to acknowledge Him. (An unsupported assertion, I know! )

    The issue seems to hinge on whether doing good simply for the sake of doing good carries as much weight with God as the concept of trusting in Him and allowing His Spirit to permeate your daily life.

    Edited by Phat, : spellcheck-o-rama


  • This message is a reply to:
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    Thugpreacha
    Member
    Posts: 13043
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
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    Message 97 of 133 (426203)
    10-05-2007 4:51 PM
    Reply to: Message 95 by iano
    10-05-2007 4:45 PM


    Re: Phat & Jar: how we explain their "Christianity"
    My observation was that not all Christians believe that one needs to be saved. Are we to conclude that they are not real Christians by believing in inclusivism?

    Further, not all denominations of Christianity believe that the Bible is inerrant. Can one side claim the moral high ground in that regard?

    Iano writes:

    If you are a Christian you fight on one side. You can be fair and honourable and decent but a soldier you must be all the same. Not a friend to the enemy

    So who is this enemy?

    Edited by Phat, : added


    This message is a reply to:
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    Thugpreacha
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    Posts: 13043
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
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    Message 119 of 133 (427179)
    10-10-2007 9:09 AM
    Reply to: Message 117 by Brian
    10-09-2007 7:43 AM


    Re: Got to let you guys know..
    Brian, responding to Ray writes:

    ...you are essentially supporting my point that crazy Christians cannot agree on what a Christian actually is.

    Evidently, some things never change.

    NIV writes:

    1 Cor 1:11-12-- My brothers, some from Chloe's household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. What I mean is this: One of you says, "I follow Paul"; another, "I follow Apollos"; another, "I follow Cephas"; still another, "I follow Christ."

    Of course, this brings up the question of what it means to follow Christ anyway...

    Brian writes:

    Jesus is way below the acceptable moral standards of an atheist. Anyone who would deliberately set up the slaughter of babies isn’t really worth worshiping.

    So Jesus deliberately set this up, or can we blame Dad for that one? :confused:


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 117 by Brian, posted 10-09-2007 7:43 AM Brian has responded

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    Thugpreacha
    Member
    Posts: 13043
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
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    Message 121 of 133 (433729)
    11-12-2007 7:56 PM
    Reply to: Message 120 by Brian
    10-10-2007 4:22 PM


    Re: Got to let you guys know..
    Brian writes:

    Well Christians tell me that Jesus and His daddy are one and the same!

    One, yet not the same. Jesus died. God never died.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 120 by Brian, posted 10-10-2007 4:22 PM Brian has responded

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    Thugpreacha
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    Posts: 13043
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
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    Message 123 of 133 (442920)
    12-23-2007 3:49 AM
    Reply to: Message 4 by jar
    10-04-2007 12:05 PM


    Source versus Content
    Jar writes:

    I have said two things.

    One that "The message of Jesus would be valid even if Jesus had only been myth and tales told around the campfire."

    I have also said that while Jesus lived here among us, I believe he was fully human.

    You and I often discuss the difference between source and content.

    I usually take the position that the source of wisdom (which I believe to be GOD) is a necessary component of the value of that wisdom. You usually say that the source of wisdom is irrelevant, but that the content of the wisdom determines its value.

    IF Jesus was just a myth and a story told around ancient campfires, the storytellers still would have to acquire their content from some sort of a source, wouldn't they?

    In order to tell a good story around a campfire, one needs either:

  • experience
  • good teachers (such as other storytellers, which leads to the question of the source of wisdom for the very first storyteller)
  • Common sense (which usually is found through observation, logic, reason, and experience of reality).

    I guess my question is this: How can a good storyteller have good content without having good source(s)?


  • This message is a reply to:
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    Thugpreacha
    Member
    Posts: 13043
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.2


    Message 125 of 133 (536273)
    11-21-2009 7:48 AM
    Reply to: Message 124 by jar
    12-23-2007 12:31 PM


    Re: Source versus Content
    Suspend-a-Jar writes:

    It does not matter what the source is, you need to test the message against reason, logic and reality.

    Funny, as I reread these old topics, but we indulge in exactly the same arguments today!

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    Thugpreacha
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    Posts: 13043
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.2


    Message 128 of 133 (589409)
    11-02-2010 10:35 AM


    Who Dat Christian?
    Looks like some things never change! We are again talking about whether or not jar is a Christian and what the criteria are for such a title. Look back through this old topic and many of the issues will be brought up again.

    Replies to this message:
     Message 130 by jar, posted 12-19-2017 7:35 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply
     Message 131 by RAZD, posted 12-19-2017 8:09 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

      
    Thugpreacha
    Member
    Posts: 13043
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.2


    Message 129 of 133 (825895)
    12-19-2017 6:42 AM
    Reply to: Message 99 by ringo
    10-05-2007 5:09 PM


    Re: Remix
    Phat writes:

    The issue seems to hinge on whether doing good simply for the sake of doing good carries as much weight with God as the concept of trusting in Him and allowing His Spirit to permeate your daily life.

    ringo writes:

    If we trust in Him and allow His Spirit to permeate our daily lives, what other effects could there be than doing good simply for the sake of doing good?

    Conversely, if somebody doesn't do good simply for the sake of doing good, how can he be trusting in God? And how can he be allowing God's Spirit to permeate his daily life?

    You were more open to how a believer thinks back then! Dont throw that away....

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

    This message is a reply to:
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    Replies to this message:
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