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Author | Topic: What Is A Christian (Remix) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
In an off topic rant in the Discussion of Moderation thread, Iano made this comment:
quote: I will never be so brash as to judge whom God accepts versus whom God does not accept. Jar is an Episcopalian . I would pay close attention in this link to the following three statements:
In this topic, I wish to discuss the attributes of what makes a Christian a Christian. I also want everyone to be familiar with the following concepts:
Inclusivism Exclusivism Common Grace Prevenient Grace Faith & Belief, please. Edited by Phat, : added link Edited by Phat, : added link again Edited by Phat, :
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
CatholicScientist writes: Although some believe that while on earth, Jesus was only human. There's got to be some minimum requirements for being a Christian that Christians, in general, can agree on. For one, I'd say that believing in Jesus' divinity is one of those minimum requirements.If God raised Him from the dead, the onus is still Gods power and not Jesus power. I would say that believing that He is alive today with God is more to the point. But thats just my personal belief.
jar writes: Its a different paradigm, though. The exclusivists believe that although Jesus died for everyone, individuals need to accept God (or Jesus) for who He is and not for who they think He is.
"The message of Jesus would be valid even if Jesus had only been myth and tales told around the campfire."
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
...if you said that you were a Christian but you don't believe and follow Jesus. Then I would say Nuh-uh. Or if you said that you don't think that Jesus was God's son. Or if you thought that Jesus never existed. I agree with you. Anyone may be able to make it into heaven by doing the good philosophies of the tales told round the campfire, but to be a Christian, you need to relate to Christ IMHO.
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
This topic sure moves fast!
Ringo writes: so does "doing like Christ" mean praying a large portion of the day? What I've been saying is that "relating to Christ" means doing like Christ, not saying, "I relate to Christ." I agree that being Christlike could be done by a Hindu, a Buddhist, or an Atheist.
philosophical concept one chooses to ascribe to Him. IMB, God is not a product of human definition and wisdom. God exists and permeates our daily lives whether or not we choose to acknowledge Him. (An unsupported assertion, I know! ) The issue seems to hinge on whether doing good simply for the sake of doing good carries as much weight with God as the concept of trusting in Him and allowing His Spirit to permeate your daily life. Edited by Phat, : spellcheck-o-rama
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
My observation was that not all Christians believe that one needs to be saved. Are we to conclude that they are not real Christians by believing in inclusivism?
Further, not all denominations of Christianity believe that the Bible is inerrant. Can one side claim the moral high ground in that regard?
Iano writes: So who is this enemy? If you are a Christian you fight on one side. You can be fair and honourable and decent but a soldier you must be all the same. Not a friend to the enemy Edited by Phat, : added
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Brian, responding to Ray writes: ...you are essentially supporting my point that crazy Christians cannot agree on what a Christian actually is. Evidently, some things never change.
NIV writes: 1 Cor 1:11-12-- My brothers, some from Chloe's household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. What I mean is this: One of you says, "I follow Paul"; another, "I follow Apollos"; another, "I follow Cephas"; still another, "I follow Christ." Of course, this brings up the question of what it means to follow Christ anyway...
Brian writes: Jesus is way below the acceptable moral standards of an atheist. Anyone who would deliberately set up the slaughter of babies isn’t really worth worshiping. So Jesus deliberately set this up, or can we blame Dad for that one?
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Brian writes: One, yet not the same. Jesus died. God never died.
Well Christians tell me that Jesus and His daddy are one and the same!
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Jar writes: You and I often discuss the difference between source and content. I have said two things. One that "The message of Jesus would be valid even if Jesus had only been myth and tales told around the campfire." I have also said that while Jesus lived here among us, I believe he was fully human. I usually take the position that the source of wisdom (which I believe to be GOD) is a necessary component of the value of that wisdom. You usually say that the source of wisdom is irrelevant, but that the content of the wisdom determines its value. IF Jesus was just a myth and a story told around ancient campfires, the storytellers still would have to acquire their content from some sort of a source, wouldn't they? In order to tell a good story around a campfire, one needs either:
I guess my question is this: How can a good storyteller have good content without having good source(s)?
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Suspend-a-Jar writes: Funny, as I reread these old topics, but we indulge in exactly the same arguments today!
It does not matter what the source is, you need to test the message against reason, logic and reality.
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Looks like some things never change! We are again talking about whether or not jar is a Christian and what the criteria are for such a title. Look back through this old topic and many of the issues will be brought up again.
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Phat writes: The issue seems to hinge on whether doing good simply for the sake of doing good carries as much weight with God as the concept of trusting in Him and allowing His Spirit to permeate your daily life. ringo writes: You were more open to how a believer thinks back then! Dont throw that away.... If we trust in Him and allow His Spirit to permeate our daily lives, what other effects could there be than doing good simply for the sake of doing good? Conversely, if somebody doesn't do good simply for the sake of doing good, how can he be trusting in God? And how can he be allowing God's Spirit to permeate his daily life?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith
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